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JohnPowell
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19 Feb 2017, 12:38 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
The whole rotten mess could have been avoided if Bush hadn't have gotten a wild hare up his a$$ about military adventurism in Iraq - something he lied the country into.


The war had been decided on before he even got into power. The US and UK were also bombing Iraq in the late 90's.


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19 Feb 2017, 12:44 pm

There have been a lot of different forks in the road we could of taken along the way but it is true that the Obama administration funded terrorists in Syria and I think most likely played a big role in orchestrating the 'Arab Spring' which can only be described as a disaster. Obama also support Islamists in Libya where ISIS has found a foothold, this got our ambassador and 3 other Americans murdered.

Iraq was essentially under decade plus long siege after the Gulf War, 500k Iraqi children died because of sanctions not to mention the fact that is was the US that provided Saddam his arsenal that he carried out his genocidal campaigns and encouraged him to go to war with Iran who we were also selling weapons to in that conflict.



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19 Feb 2017, 12:58 pm

Yep.


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Kraichgauer
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19 Feb 2017, 1:11 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
The whole rotten mess could have been avoided if Bush hadn't have gotten a wild hare up his a$$ about military adventurism in Iraq - something he lied the country into.


The war had been decided on before he even got into power. The US and UK were also bombing Iraq in the late 90's.


Those bombings were a means to destroy Hussein's actual WMD arsenal, and avoid any need to go back into Iraq. Despite that, Bush used the lie of existing WMDs and ties to Al Qaida to get us into a disaster of a war, ultimately leading to the region becoming destabilized, and opening up the door for the emergence of ISIS.


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19 Feb 2017, 1:14 pm

Jacoby wrote:
There have been a lot of different forks in the road we could of taken along the way but it is true that the Obama administration funded terrorists in Syria and I think most likely played a big role in orchestrating the 'Arab Spring' which can only be described as a disaster. Obama also support Islamists in Libya where ISIS has found a foothold, this got our ambassador and 3 other Americans murdered.

Iraq was essentially under decade plus long siege after the Gulf War, 500k Iraqi children died because of sanctions not to mention the fact that is was the US that provided Saddam his arsenal that he carried out his genocidal campaigns and encouraged him to go to war with Iran who we were also selling weapons to in that conflict.


You seem happy to lay the whole blame on Obama, but give Bush a pass for starting a war based on a lie that's led only to disaster.


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19 Feb 2017, 1:16 pm

Gore 100% would of invaded Iraq, it was planned long in advance of 9/11 and before Bush even took office. His VP was Joe Lieberman and Dubya ran as a non-interventionist who opposed nation building back in 2000(not sure what happened there)



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19 Feb 2017, 1:30 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
The whole rotten mess could have been avoided if Bush hadn't have gotten a wild hare up his a$$ about military adventurism in Iraq - something he lied the country into.


The war had been decided on before he even got into power. The US and UK were also bombing Iraq in the late 90's.


Those bombings were a means to destroy Hussein's actual WMD arsenal, and avoid any need to go back into Iraq. Despite that, Bush used the lie of existing WMDs and ties to Al Qaida to get us into a disaster of a war, ultimately leading to the region becoming destabilized, and opening up the door for the emergence of ISIS.


They'd already been destroyed. "and avoid any need to go back into Iraq", you realise that them bombing Iraq means they were already back there?! It's not a case of it being "Bush". It was a string of lying, war mongering Zionist neocons. Bush/Obama etc, they're just dumb lying puppets.


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19 Feb 2017, 1:33 pm

PATRIOT Act was written by Joe Biden in the 90s!

there really is little difference between the 'mainstream' of both parties



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19 Feb 2017, 6:21 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
wowiexist wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Like I said. Educate yourself.


I feel like if this is common knowledge like you say you would be able to find a source on it. Otherwise it is just another wacky conspiracy theory.


I posted the link. The years and years of collaboration can't be shares with one simple link though. Just all the ties regarding 9/11 took a 5 hour video to explain. I asked him if he was interested in being pointed in the right direction, he wasn't. Bit difficult when someone who seems to be reading from George Bush Jr's handbook.


I can agree that there are connections. I don't think that our government is intentionally forming terror groups in order to murder its own citizens though. I think it is more of that we can't figure out who the good guys and bad guys are. We give money and weapons to some group that we think are fighting terror groups and then they turn out to be a terror group themselves. We should just pull ourselves out of the whole area and we would be a lot better off.



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19 Feb 2017, 7:35 pm

wowiexist wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
wowiexist wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Like I said. Educate yourself.


I feel like if this is common knowledge like you say you would be able to find a source on it. Otherwise it is just another wacky conspiracy theory.


I posted the link. The years and years of collaboration can't be shares with one simple link though. Just all the ties regarding 9/11 took a 5 hour video to explain. I asked him if he was interested in being pointed in the right direction, he wasn't. Bit difficult when someone who seems to be reading from George Bush Jr's handbook.


I can agree that there are connections. I don't think that our government is intentionally forming terror groups in order to murder its own citizens though. I think it is more of that we can't figure out who the good guys and bad guys are. We give money and weapons to some group that we think are fighting terror groups and then they turn out to be a terror group themselves. We should just pull ourselves out of the whole area and we would be a lot better off.


Only with 9/11. It's to be a threat against the US, so there's an excuse to carry on with these insane wars. Your government are the bad guys.


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19 Feb 2017, 9:55 pm

Jacoby wrote:
Gore 100% would of invaded Iraq, it was planned long in advance of 9/11 and before Bush even took office. His VP was Joe Lieberman and Dubya ran as a non-interventionist who opposed nation building back in 2000(not sure what happened there)


Why would have Gore invaded? He wasn't the one who had a pathological need to do better than his much resented old man.


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19 Feb 2017, 10:05 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Gore 100% would of invaded Iraq, it was planned long in advance of 9/11 and before Bush even took office. His VP was Joe Lieberman and Dubya ran as a non-interventionist who opposed nation building back in 2000(not sure what happened there)


Why would have Gore invaded? He wasn't the one who had a pathological need to do better than his much resented old man.


Gore/Lieberman was considered more hawkish than Bush/Chaney believe it or not, it really shouldn't be that hard to believe if you remember Joe Lieberman. Remember it was his BFF John McCain who was the other Republican in the primaries against Bush. It was a different time too, hard to believe that was 17 years ago.



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19 Feb 2017, 10:27 pm

Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Gore 100% would of invaded Iraq, it was planned long in advance of 9/11 and before Bush even took office. His VP was Joe Lieberman and Dubya ran as a non-interventionist who opposed nation building back in 2000(not sure what happened there)


Why would have Gore invaded? He wasn't the one who had a pathological need to do better than his much resented old man.


Gore/Lieberman was considered more hawkish than Bush/Chaney believe it or not, it really shouldn't be that hard to believe if you remember Joe Lieberman. Remember it was his BFF John McCain who was the other Republican in the primaries against Bush. It was a different time too, hard to believe that was 17 years ago.


I just don't see Gore doing something stupid like starting a two front war. For arguments sake, say Gore had Iraq in his crosshairs, I think he would have been bright enough to fight that war after the Afghanistan situation was resolved. And I seriously doubt he'd resort to the lies that Bush did.


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22 Feb 2017, 12:50 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Gore 100% would of invaded Iraq, it was planned long in advance of 9/11 and before Bush even took office. His VP was Joe Lieberman and Dubya ran as a non-interventionist who opposed nation building back in 2000(not sure what happened there)


Why would have Gore invaded? He wasn't the one who had a pathological need to do better than his much resented old man.


Gore/Lieberman was considered more hawkish than Bush/Chaney believe it or not, it really shouldn't be that hard to believe if you remember Joe Lieberman. Remember it was his BFF John McCain who was the other Republican in the primaries against Bush. It was a different time too, hard to believe that was 17 years ago.


I just don't see Gore doing something stupid like starting a two front war. For arguments sake, say Gore had Iraq in his crosshairs, I think he would have been bright enough to fight that war after the Afghanistan situation was resolved. And I seriously doubt he'd resort to the lies that Bush did.


:wall:

Like Obama did? Gore wouldn't have had a choice. These wars were inevitable.


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22 Feb 2017, 12:56 pm

Gore/Lieberman were bigger hawks than Bush/Chaney, the military and intelligence officials would of told them same thing and they would of most likely did the exact same thing as the plans weren't personally made by the Bush but rather long before he even became president.



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22 Feb 2017, 1:05 pm

Yep

http://www.informationclearinghouse.inf ... fenses.pdf


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