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The rise of National Socialism in the USA

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KagamineLen
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25 Sep 2017, 9:10 pm

Bataar wrote:
KagamineLen wrote:
Meh. I am emotional because family bridges were burned between myself and others I know who believe Nazis deserve the right to march while displaying weapons while NFL players who protest police brutality deserve to be criticized. So, I will admit, I am guilty of projection. I will also admit to drunkposting.
So you don't believe Nazis deserve the right to march? You don't believe in free speech? Wow, that's really sad. Even speech we disagree with needs to be protected because eventually your speech will fall into that category. The most troubling speech is what needs protected the most.


Brandishing weapons goes beyond the realm of free speech. If they wanted to walk in there unarmed, f*****g let them, but they gave me the impression that they were looking for a fight. Hell, many of them even admitted they went in there looking to stomp some heads. That is not protected by the first amendment.



funeralxempire
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25 Sep 2017, 9:18 pm

Bataar wrote:
KagamineLen wrote:
Meh. I am emotional because family bridges were burned between myself and others I know who believe Nazis deserve the right to march while displaying weapons while NFL players who protest police brutality deserve to be criticized. So, I will admit, I am guilty of projection. I will also admit to drunkposting.
So you don't believe Nazis deserve the right to march? You don't believe in free speech? Wow, that's really sad. Even speech we disagree with needs to be protected because eventually your speech will fall into that category. The most troubling speech is what needs protected the most.


They have a right to march, they just don't have a right to march while brandishing weapons. Or maybe their opponents should all march while brandishing assault rifles - we both know if BLM had a group of men brandishing assault rifles involved in one of their marches it would end with the state using overwhelming, deadly force. What's good for the goose is good for the gander, no?


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DarthMetaKnight
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25 Sep 2017, 9:24 pm

Bataar wrote:
KagamineLen wrote:
Meh. I am emotional because family bridges were burned between myself and others I know who believe Nazis deserve the right to march while displaying weapons while NFL players who protest police brutality deserve to be criticized. So, I will admit, I am guilty of projection. I will also admit to drunkposting.
So you don't believe Nazis deserve the right to march? You don't believe in free speech? Wow, that's really sad. Even speech we disagree with needs to be protected because eventually your speech will fall into that category. The most troubling speech is what needs protected the most.


Seriously?

Why?

When we let Nazis talk, what good happens? It's not like they add anything of value to the conversation ... unless you place value on rare Pepes.


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Bataar
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25 Sep 2017, 9:43 pm

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
Bataar wrote:
KagamineLen wrote:
Meh. I am emotional because family bridges were burned between myself and others I know who believe Nazis deserve the right to march while displaying weapons while NFL players who protest police brutality deserve to be criticized. So, I will admit, I am guilty of projection. I will also admit to drunkposting.
So you don't believe Nazis deserve the right to march? You don't believe in free speech? Wow, that's really sad. Even speech we disagree with needs to be protected because eventually your speech will fall into that category. The most troubling speech is what needs protected the most.


Seriously?

Why?

When we let Nazis talk, what good happens? It's not like they add anything of value to the conversation ... unless you place value on rare Pepes.

Nothing good happens, but they still have the right to say it. Who do you think should determine what speech is forbidden? What will you do when they determine your speech is forbidden? Do you really trust the government enough to make that decision?



funeralxempire
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25 Sep 2017, 9:53 pm

Bataar wrote:
Nothing good happens, but they still have the right to say it. Who do you think should determine what speech is forbidden? What will you do when they determine your speech is forbidden? Do you really trust the government enough to make that decision?


I don't trust the government particularly, and I don't really care if neo-Nazis or other far-right people wish to discuss their ideas (in the same way I don't mind if Leninists or Islamists do the same). But, when they march with weapons, that's not a matter of free speech; when they plot terrorist acts or commit terrorist acts, that's not a matter of free speech.

Further, I can't condone the state looking the other way when one group engages in menacing behaviour when any other radical group would be on the receiving end of state violence. Imagine if it was Islamists instead of Klansmen, the right would show up ready to initiate use of force and make antifa appear timid and noncommittal towards use of force.

Personally, in North America I'm much more worried about violence from the right than I am about violence from any of the other groups - based on statistics from the past 20 years this is a perfectly reasonable concern.


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Lintar
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25 Sep 2017, 9:56 pm

KagamineLen wrote:
We have a madman president who won the electoral election on a campaign tailored towards white supremacy.


BS. The election result had nothing to do with 'white supremacy' and everything to do with the incompetence and corruption of the Democratic Party.

KagamineLen wrote:
We have people who are more angry about people kneeling at the National Anthem then the Nazis parading down the city streets.


What Nazis? Where? Oh, you mean Antifa, the people who would chant 'Love Trumps Hate' whilst bashing people up and setting cars on fire. Yes, those people are definitely intolerant, hypocritical bigots.

KagamineLen wrote:
Not to mention that many people are more angry about the sons of b*****s exercising free speech than they are about a president who has a hard on for nuclear war.


Well, since they have 'free speech' they are allowed to do this, aren't they? Yes? No? Can't decide?

KagamineLen wrote:
Trump's fan base really wants National Socialism in the USA. They want the colored and the disabled stuffed into death camps and gas ovens. That is reality. Antifa really is the lesser of two evils here.


Oh for (bleep) sake! Are you REALLY this deranged?! Donald Trump is NOT Hitler! Saying this is a bloody INSULT to all those who fought against REAL fascism, or lived through incarceration in one of the concentration camps!

KagamineLen wrote:
Anybody with autism who supports Trump even now supports National Socialism by default, and they are also supporting a culture that will call for their systematic dehumanization and extermination.


I don't like using impolite language, but f*** you! YOU do NOT tell me who I can or cannot support! GOT THAT!? I am just SO sick and tired of complete idiots saying "Trump is like Hitler, he's a Nazi". Enough already!

KagamineLen wrote:
I am disgusted with my country now.


Then emigrate! Will you do that? Go on, put your 'principles' first, and take action. Let Mr. Trump know that you will no longer tolerate his 'tyrannical' rule, and will head for... Canada? Please don't come to Australia, we don't want people like you here.

KagamineLen wrote:
We can no longer deny that National Socialism is on the rise in the USA.


Actually, we can, because it isn't. Bloody hell, talk about being hysterical!



funeralxempire
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25 Sep 2017, 10:11 pm

Lintar wrote:
What Nazis? Where? Oh, you mean Antifa, the people who would chant 'Love Trumps Hate' whilst bashing people up and setting cars on fire. Yes, those people are definitely intolerant, hypocritical bigots.


Image

These Nazis. You should take your head out of your backside, it smells nicer and you won't be blind to the reality around you any longer. :wink:


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The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
Real power is achieved when the ruling class controls the material essentials of life, granting and withholding them from the masses as if they were privileges.—George Orwell


Raptor
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25 Sep 2017, 10:12 pm

Bataar wrote:
DarthMetaKnight wrote:
Bataar wrote:
KagamineLen wrote:
Meh. I am emotional because family bridges were burned between myself and others I know who believe Nazis deserve the right to march while displaying weapons while NFL players who protest police brutality deserve to be criticized. So, I will admit, I am guilty of projection. I will also admit to drunkposting.
So you don't believe Nazis deserve the right to march? You don't believe in free speech? Wow, that's really sad. Even speech we disagree with needs to be protected because eventually your speech will fall into that category. The most troubling speech is what needs protected the most.


Seriously?

Why?

When we let Nazis talk, what good happens? It's not like they add anything of value to the conversation ... unless you place value on rare Pepes.

Nothing good happens, but they still have the right to say it. Who do you think should determine what speech is forbidden? What will you do when they determine your speech is forbidden? Do you really trust the government enough to make that decision?

^
That's it right there.
We either have free speech or we don't. Being told what freedoms we can express isn't freedom


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funeralxempire
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25 Sep 2017, 10:13 pm

Raptor wrote:
That's it right there.
We either have free speech or we don't. Being told what freedoms we can express isn't freedom


Nicely said, now let's all go shout fire in crowded theatres to show how important free speech really is. :lol:


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The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
Real power is achieved when the ruling class controls the material essentials of life, granting and withholding them from the masses as if they were privileges.—George Orwell


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25 Sep 2017, 10:18 pm

Lintar wrote:
KagamineLen wrote:
I am disgusted with my country now.


Then emigrate! Will you do that? Go on, put your 'principles' first, and take action. Let Mr. Trump know that you will no longer tolerate his 'tyrannical' rule, and will head for... Canada? Please don't come to Australia, we don't want people like you here.

There is nowhere to go; fascism is rising everywhere. :(


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Last edited by Tollorin on 25 Sep 2017, 10:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

KagamineLen
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25 Sep 2017, 10:21 pm

Lintar wrote:
KagamineLen wrote:
We have a madman president who won the electoral election on a campaign tailored towards white supremacy.


BS. The election result had nothing to do with 'white supremacy' and everything to do with the incompetence and corruption of the Democratic Party.

KagamineLen wrote:
We have people who are more angry about people kneeling at the National Anthem then the Nazis parading down the city streets.


What Nazis? Where? Oh, you mean Antifa, the people who would chant 'Love Trumps Hate' whilst bashing people up and setting cars on fire. Yes, those people are definitely intolerant, hypocritical bigots.

KagamineLen wrote:
Not to mention that many people are more angry about the sons of b*****s exercising free speech than they are about a president who has a hard on for nuclear war.


Well, since they have 'free speech' they are allowed to do this, aren't they? Yes? No? Can't decide?

KagamineLen wrote:
Trump's fan base really wants National Socialism in the USA. They want the colored and the disabled stuffed into death camps and gas ovens. That is reality. Antifa really is the lesser of two evils here.


Oh for (bleep) sake! Are you REALLY this deranged?! Donald Trump is NOT Hitler! Saying this is a bloody INSULT to all those who fought against REAL fascism, or lived through incarceration in one of the concentration camps!

KagamineLen wrote:
Anybody with autism who supports Trump even now supports National Socialism by default, and they are also supporting a culture that will call for their systematic dehumanization and extermination.


I don't like using impolite language, but f*** you! YOU do NOT tell me who I can or cannot support! GOT THAT!? I am just SO sick and tired of complete idiots saying "Trump is like Hitler, he's a Nazi". Enough already!

KagamineLen wrote:
I am disgusted with my country now.


Then emigrate! Will you do that? Go on, put your 'principles' first, and take action. Let Mr. Trump know that you will no longer tolerate his 'tyrannical' rule, and will head for... Canada? Please don't come to Australia, we don't want people like you here.

KagamineLen wrote:
We can no longer deny that National Socialism is on the rise in the USA.


Actually, we can, because it isn't. Bloody hell, talk about being hysterical!


Uhm, I am aware that many soldiers have fought and died for your right to support fascism in the USA. They also fought for my right to call you on it.

And when people march on the street pulling off Roman salutes and brandishing weapons and swastika flags, I believe it is fair to refer to them as Nazis. Trump referred to them as very fine people. I am capable of putting one and one together to come up with the answer of two. You are capable of reading Stormfront. I get it.

You have every right to support the genocide of ethnic and neurodiverse minorities. But do not expect me to not say anything about it. And I will stay in the USA, because I have an obligation to do my part to make my country a better place to live in. Running away from problems is more your style, I understand.



SH90
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25 Sep 2017, 10:24 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Raptor wrote:
That's it right there.
We either have free speech or we don't. Being told what freedoms we can express isn't freedom


Nicely said, now let's all go shout fire in crowded theatres to show how important free speech really is. :lol:


Private property, freedom of speech ends there. Besides, yelling fire in a crowded area, without a emergency is a crime.



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25 Sep 2017, 10:25 pm

KagamineLen wrote:
SH90 wrote:
KagamineLen wrote:
Meh. I am emotional because family bridges were burned between myself and others I know who believe Nazis deserve the right to march while displaying weapons while NFL players who protest police brutality deserve to be criticized. So, I will admit, I am guilty of projection. I will also admit to drunkposting.


Are you currently depressed, how much have you had to drink?


Whatever. I probably should not even dignify your words with a response, but yes, family members I loved when I was growing up have showed me their flagrantly racist and fascist side, so I had a few drinks and I posted some things that I should not have posted. I will own that much.

What's with some people and posting while they're drunk? It never occurs to me to go to any forum while I'm drunk. Besides, I'm a happy drunk on those occasions that I am actually drunk. :D

Quote:
But I still strongly believe that Trump is catering to the likes of neo Nazis and the KKK. And just by observing the people around me, I can tell that people feel the need to speak on bolder terms about how they feel that racial minorities and Jews and Muslims should be deported. That much is not just my projections, it is their own words.
Very VERY few Americans have affiliation with the Nazis or KKK so why would he even bother with such a small sect? And no, just because you don't agree with someones politics doesnt make them a Nazi or Klansman.


Reading what I have so far I can see this thread getting locked real soon.


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funeralxempire
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25 Sep 2017, 10:31 pm

SH90 wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Raptor wrote:
That's it right there.
We either have free speech or we don't. Being told what freedoms we can express isn't freedom


Nicely said, now let's all go shout fire in crowded theatres to show how important free speech really is. :lol:


Private property, freedom of speech ends there. Besides, yelling fire in a crowded area, without a emergency is a crime.


It's a crime because there's consensus within society that some degree of limitation on freedom of speech is tolerable and required, it's a matter of where to draw the line. Sedition, threats, solicitation of violence or other criminal activity are all pretty strongly agreed on as fair limits. This isn't a binary issue, we're arguing over fractions.


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If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
Real power is achieved when the ruling class controls the material essentials of life, granting and withholding them from the masses as if they were privileges.—George Orwell


KagamineLen
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25 Sep 2017, 10:38 pm

Uhm, if they support the rights of neo Nazis and Klansmen to march with automatic weapons and baseball bats while looking for a fight, yet turn around and state that the NFL is anti American because of some patriotic civil disobedience, I think it is fair to see where their hearts really are at. So actual neo Nazi and Klan membership is low, but there is a very large and very vocal crowd in their corner who tends to forget that their Klan and Nazi friends were highly armed, highly dangerous, and very much looking to stomp some heads in ways that go far beyond what the First Amendment actually covers. Trump himself claimed that they were "very fine people".

So, they may not be actual Nazis or Klansmen, but they certainly are sympathetic to their cause.



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25 Sep 2017, 10:50 pm

SH90 wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Raptor wrote:
That's it right there.
We either have free speech or we don't. Being told what freedoms we can express isn't freedom


Nicely said, now let's all go shout fire in crowded theatres to show how important free speech really is. :lol:


Private property, freedom of speech ends there. Besides, yelling fire in a crowded area, without a emergency is a crime.

They believe hate speech (including things they just don't like) should be a crime since it causes injury to their psyche just the same as being trampled in a stampede.
I'll just say I'm glad I'm stronger than that...


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