Are IQ tests mainly for the bourgeois?

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auntblabby
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09 Jan 2018, 8:06 pm

i'm wondering when somebody will trot out eugenics again.

DarthMetaKnight
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09 Jan 2018, 8:11 pm

auntblabby wrote:

i'm wondering when somebody will trot out eugenics again.

If the geniuses try to weed out the normies with eugenics, they will fail.

They are outnumbered after all.

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auntblabby
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09 Jan 2018, 8:17 pm

DarthMetaKnight wrote:

auntblabby wrote:

i'm wondering when somebody will trot out eugenics again.

If the geniuses try to weed out the normies with eugenics, they will fail. They are outnumbered after all.

my conspiratorially minded self thinks that part of the reason the PTB refuse to harden our grid, is they are counting on some x-class flare or neutron bomb attack to burn out our electrical infrastructure, thus killing off 90% of the general public, the remaining 10% being the lucky/cognitive elites [the uber-wealthy] who could prepare on their own. I believe that would be their preferred way of culling us.

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09 Jan 2018, 8:35 pm

rvacountrysinger wrote:

Closet Genious wrote:

auntblabby wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

auntblabby wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

I think there is more than one type of intelligence. Someone might be a total dullard in daily matters, but have great artistic talent. How is that artistic intelligence to be gauged?

spatial intelligence?

Perhaps in certain cases. But does that pertain to music or literature?

verbal intelligence for both cases but for the instrumental players, a certain kinesiological or athletic intelligence. also musical notes are spatial in their own way.

I disagree completely. Music in general is much more closely related to mathmatical and logical intelligence.

To the OP. IQ is the number one best predictor of lifetime success(education and income), even more so than family status. Does that mean every high IQ person is successful? Of course not. It's not useful to make it into a black and white thing. IQ is by no means the only factor, but saying it doesn't matter is ridiculous...
Show me a great scientist with an average iq, it doesn't exist.

You'd be wrong. Most scientists that are well known certainly didn't have genius level IQ's. Sure they were above average. But for example, Bill Gates was 122, i believe. Certainly bright, but not exceptional. Yet, look what he accomplished! I truly do not believe IQ is relevant to life time achievement. High IQ people can solve the problems more quickly, but that doesn't mean they can live more fulfilling lives, or contribute more to society. If you look at all the people who belong to MENSA, how many of them have achieved greatness? I' m sure some have, but the vast majority end up being extremely ordinary in life.

This is correct. There is not a linear correlation between IQ and success. Part of this is probably for a reason I've previously stated, IQ tests are not sufficiently comprehensive and neglect to sufficiently include subtests designed to examine one's social intelligence, emotional intelligence, and intuition. A charismatic and popular individual will often excel over an individual with a slightly higher IQ who does not possess such traits,.

People with higher than average IQs may be more prone to depression than people with average IQs, and this can inhibit one's ability to succeed in life, and knowing they are smart compounds this because they are unable to meet society's expectations of them, and their own expectations.

People with genius level IQs who are omnibus geniuses may just very well measure success differently than the average person. In my experience, they tend to focus their lives on things they enjoy more than on things they don't enjoy that may eventually bring them pleasure someday. It should be noted though that because so many things are so easy to them, many of them can switch professions on a whim because it takes them so little time to become proficient in it.

kraftiekortie
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09 Jan 2018, 8:42 pm

IQ tests are biased towards those who have lived at least a middle-class existence within a "western," first-world context.

I don't believe the bias is intentional---but it's there.

LoveNotHate
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09 Jan 2018, 10:15 pm

MissChess wrote:

The number I most commonly see batted around for Bill Gates' IQ is 160.

When I see a good speaker like Bill Gates , I think, "no way someone that normal functioning" is a genius.

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09 Jan 2018, 10:29 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:

MissChess wrote:

The number I most commonly see batted around for Bill Gates' IQ is 160.

When I see a good speaker like Bill Gates , I think, "no way someone that normal functioning" is a genius.

I don't have a measuring stick to tell me if someone's a genius.

I'm not sure it's a quality we've learned to measure yet - to me genius isn't a score on a test, it's what an individual accomplishes. Someone who sees the world in a fundamentally different way, and who uses that perception to achieve something of significance, something lasting.

Someone who sees reality in a way that the general population may catch up to in a few decades, or centuries.

To me, "genius" is more qualitative than quantitative, so I think I'd have to put him in that category.

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auntblabby
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09 Jan 2018, 10:32 pm

Schopenhauer said something along the lines of "Talent hits a target no one else can hit. Genius hits a target no one else can see."

Kraichgauer
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09 Jan 2018, 11:15 pm

As I recall, the racist fanatic who had shot up the Holocaust Museum in DC, and who had murdered a black security guard there, was a member of MENSA. So much for IQ tests.

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09 Jan 2018, 11:17 pm

DarthMetaKnight wrote:

Closet Genious wrote:

To the OP. IQ is the number one best predictor of lifetime success(education and income), even more so than family status.

I don't know man. There are lots of dumb rich people who are financially successful because they inherited dad's business.

Running a business is easy when you are too big to fail, and you receive subsides as a result.

I don't see how IQ matters more than class.

Reminds me of our sitting current President.

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auntblabby
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09 Jan 2018, 11:17 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

As I recall, the racist fanatic who had shot up the Holocaust Museum in DC, and who had murdered a black security guard there, was a member of MENSA. So much for IQ tests.

so his high intelligence made him a more diabolically clever ahole? seems intelligence is an amplifier of many traits, and a suppressor of somewhat fewer.

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09 Jan 2018, 11:20 pm

auntblabby wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

As I recall, the racist fanatic who had shot up the Holocaust Museum in DC, and who had murdered a black security guard there, was a member of MENSA. So much for IQ tests.

so his high intelligence made him a more diabolically clever ahole? seems intelligence is an amplifier of many traits, and a suppressor of somewhat fewer.

Or perhaps what IQ tests measure is overrated.

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auntblabby
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09 Jan 2018, 11:27 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

auntblabby wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

As I recall, the racist fanatic who had shot up the Holocaust Museum in DC, and who had murdered a black security guard there, was a member of MENSA. So much for IQ tests.

so his high intelligence made him a more diabolically clever ahole? seems intelligence is an amplifier of many traits, and a suppressor of somewhat fewer.

Or perhaps what IQ tests measure is overrated.

not necessarily overrated, but taken out of a larger context. just because a person can think faster and deeper and more faultlessly than another person, doesn't mean the smarter person can do any more than manipulate his/her environment better than the next guy, it doesn't mean that s/he will necessarily develop a "golden rule" set of ethics and be a good and kind person, in fact i'd say higher intelligence is a test of one's spiritual mettle, as it is an enhanced earthly power which can be used for selfless aims [good to fellow humans] or ill [selfish aims and bloodyminded malice aforethought]. and we all know what Lord Acton said about how power tends to corrupt, absolute power corrupts absolutely [unavoidably], and nearly all great [cognitive elite] men are bad men.

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09 Jan 2018, 11:43 pm

auntblabby wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

auntblabby wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

As I recall, the racist fanatic who had shot up the Holocaust Museum in DC, and who had murdered a black security guard there, was a member of MENSA. So much for IQ tests.

so his high intelligence made him a more diabolically clever ahole? seems intelligence is an amplifier of many traits, and a suppressor of somewhat fewer.

Or perhaps what IQ tests measure is overrated.

To be sure, high IQ doesn't mean morality and goodness is included in the package. As I recall, the Allied psychologists who interviewed the Nazi war criminals being put on trial found that Hermann Goering scored very high on his IQ test.

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auntblabby
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10 Jan 2018, 12:03 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

auntblabby wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

auntblabby wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

As I recall, the racist fanatic who had shot up the Holocaust Museum in DC, and who had murdered a black security guard there, was a member of MENSA. So much for IQ tests.

so his high intelligence made him a more diabolically clever ahole? seems intelligence is an amplifier of many traits, and a suppressor of somewhat fewer.

Or perhaps what IQ tests measure is overrated.

this is a continuing mystery, why one highly intelligent person [c.s. lewis] could write "mere Christianity" while another highly intelligent person would be a booster for the murder of millions of fellow humans.

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10 Jan 2018, 12:12 am

Okay, it's honestly extremely frustrating, when I come with a factual claim, and then people purposefully take all the nuances out of it to make it invalid.

IQ is the best predictor for success, and that's fact, period.

It does not mean however, that every high iq person will end up successful, that's obviously not the case, alot of them end up poor or on welfare.

It also does not mean, that social class is not a predictor aswell, it's just that when compared in isolation, IQ is a slightly better predictor.
Put the two together though, and the percentages are even better.

Also I think saying bill gates has 120 IQ is crazy talk.

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