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Kraichgauer
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04 Apr 2018, 1:58 am

sly279 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
sly279 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Daniel89 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:

I suppose because attacks on Jews is based on Anti Semitic hysteria, whereas the 1% are indeed the authors of our pain.


How so? And which one percent? The global one percent of earners who earn over $35k? Or the US one where they earn $500K? How is Bill Gates the author of your pain?


That would be an exceptional argument if the 1% consisted of just Bill Gates. But it doesn't. There are far more like the Koch brothers (not including the gay Koch brother involved in the arts) who pour money into elections to change the economic landscape in order for themselves and their class to benefit at the rest of our expense.

Don’t forget Bloomberg and soros.


If I recall correctly, Bloomberg is a Republican posing as a Democrat - the mirror image of Trump.
As for Soros - - I believe he's done nothing but champion liberal causes, such as defending the voiceless who would otherwise go unheard, rather than rolling over the said voiceless as the Kochs have done. The George Soros the right constantly screams about is a bogeyman of their own invention. You'd think Soros was really Ernst Stavro Blofeld, petting his furry white cat as he plots world domination from listening to Fox and Breitbart.


Sorry you think the rich billion from new York who’s friends with most democrats and spending billions pushing liberal ideas is a republican?
Perphas your thinking of the mayor during 9/11. That’s not Bloomberg, he’s the one who pushes gun control, banning soda, banning fast food, supporting illegal immigration. He’s giving large sums to any and all democrats running for office, he’s as far left as you can go.

Both Soros and Bloomberg are all about rolling over the 100 million Americans who voices go unheard.


As I said, Bloomberg is the mirror image of Trump. Both switched political ideologies for the sake of achieving power.


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DarthMetaKnight
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04 Apr 2018, 1:59 am

Daniel89 wrote:
What exactly is a living wage?


If you have enough money to feed yourself, that is a living wage.

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If you are worth more than you are being paid then you can find another job where they will pay you what you are worth.


Really?

In my personal experience, finding a new job is usually harder than the job itself. Work is tough, but getting hired is even harder.


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Daniel89
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04 Apr 2018, 2:00 am

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
Daniel89 wrote:
What exactly is a living wage?


If you have enough money to feed yourself, that is a living wage.

Quote:
If you are worth more than you are being paid then you can find another job where they will pay you what you are worth.


Really?

In my personal experience, finding a new job is usually harder than the job itself. Work is tough, but getting hired is even harder.


Then surely everyone in the US is paid a living wage then? Cost of feeding yourself cannot be that high?



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04 Apr 2018, 2:10 am

sly279 wrote:
Don’t forget Bloomberg and soros.


Believe me. I haven't.

For the record, I'm not fond of Soros. America is currently stuck in an idiotic two-party system because all of the billionaires in the country only fund the Republicans and Democrats. Billionaires who fund the Democrats (when they could be funding an actual leftist party) are part of the problem.

That being said, I disagree with the Neo-Nazis who argue that Soros is especially bad because he's a Jew. The wealthy Jews are no different from other plutocrats in this regard.


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Aristophanes
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04 Apr 2018, 8:08 am

Daniel89 wrote:
Aristophanes wrote:
Daniel89 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:

I suppose because attacks on Jews is based on Anti Semitic hysteria, whereas the 1% are indeed the authors of our pain.


How so? And which one percent? The global one percent of earners who earn over $35k? Or the US one where they earn $500K? How is Bill Gates the author of your pain?


Speaking as an American about the American system:

There's nothing wrong with being wealthy or part of the 1%, the problem is that that 1% are growing wealth at a far faster rate than the bottom 99%. Wealth equals power, what that means is that they're growing more and more power and you and I are getting less and less power. That's the problem because eventually that power dynamic will create an oligarchy (one could claim we're already there seeing as how 70% of political contributions come from that class). Most oligarchies are short lived and tend to leave their nations in shambles (all while the oligarchy members move to another nation with their wealth intact). Read up on ancient Corinth for more information on how an oligarchy operates-- it's a political virus.


There are a few reasons the rich are becoming richer.

The increase in workers and consumers, this benefits capital. Coca-cola runs the same business model now but has an increasing consumer base which means increasing profits. More workers means more competition for jobs which means lower wages.

Then there is also increasing material wealth. We have all this new technology increasing the quality of our lives that we choose to buy. Previous generations were more equal but their quality of life was lower.

I'm not arguing WHY it's happening, I'm pointing out what the conclusion will be assuming it follows the same path.



kraftiekortie
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04 Apr 2018, 9:32 am

Democracy, ideally, is something which gains, for all people, access to the same amount of liberty.



sly279
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04 Apr 2018, 6:55 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
sly279 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
sly279 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Daniel89 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:

I suppose because attacks on Jews is based on Anti Semitic hysteria, whereas the 1% are indeed the authors of our pain.


How so? And which one percent? The global one percent of earners who earn over $35k? Or the US one where they earn $500K? How is Bill Gates the author of your pain?


That would be an exceptional argument if the 1% consisted of just Bill Gates. But it doesn't. There are far more like the Koch brothers (not including the gay Koch brother involved in the arts) who pour money into elections to change the economic landscape in order for themselves and their class to benefit at the rest of our expense.

Don’t forget Bloomberg and soros.


If I recall correctly, Bloomberg is a Republican posing as a Democrat - the mirror image of Trump.
As for Soros - - I believe he's done nothing but champion liberal causes, such as defending the voiceless who would otherwise go unheard, rather than rolling over the said voiceless as the Kochs have done. The George Soros the right constantly screams about is a bogeyman of their own invention. You'd think Soros was really Ernst Stavro Blofeld, petting his furry white cat as he plots world domination from listening to Fox and Breitbart.


Sorry you think the rich billion from new York who’s friends with most democrats and spending billions pushing liberal ideas is a republican?
Perphas your thinking of the mayor during 9/11. That’s not Bloomberg, he’s the one who pushes gun control, banning soda, banning fast food, supporting illegal immigration. He’s giving large sums to any and all democrats running for office, he’s as far left as you can go.

Both Soros and Bloomberg are all about rolling over the 100 million Americans who voices go unheard.


As I said, Bloomberg is the mirror image of Trump. Both switched political ideologies for the sake of achieving power.

And as I said Bloomberg never has been a republican. He deeply believes in far left ideas. So no he didn’t switch parties. He’s just a Democrat doing standard democrat stuff. Democrats want to control everything people do.



kraftiekortie
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04 Apr 2018, 7:18 pm

Bloomberg a leftist? No way!

The only thing "Democratic" about Bloomberg, perhaps, is his stand on guns.

He's a businessman, first and foremost.



Kraichgauer
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04 Apr 2018, 7:45 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Bloomberg a leftist? No way!

The only thing "Democratic" about Bloomberg, perhaps, is his stand on guns.

He's a businessman, first and foremost.


Thank you for the backup mein freund. :)


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Tollorin
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05 Apr 2018, 12:44 am

Daniel89 wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:

No its paying taxes like citizens are supposed to do, some of which will go into programs that help poor people. Why should the rich get special passes from paying their taxes when the rest of us don't.

Also no there isn't always the option for people to find another job where they will pay them a living wage. There isn't just endless availability of 'a better job' not to mention a lot of labor jobs are investing in machines to replace a lot of human labor force. Maybe in the U.K there is an abundance of better jobs, but not here...its ridiculous someone can work full time even into over-time and still struggle to afford a 1 bedroom apartment.


Who says they are supposed to? What moral right you do have to the products of someone else's labour? There is a huge difference between everyone contributing into a pot for defence and public services and "wealth redistribution" which is just theft.

If you cannot afford a 1 bedroom apartment then why have children? If we had fewer low skilled labourers the value of low skilled labour would increase.

Call it "theft" if you want, but money is trickling up and without wealth redistribution society end up been a majority of poor and a minority of insanely wealthy individuals that control everything; it's most likely a mathematical inevitability. Want a prosperous and stable society without the danger of a bloody revolution? Then you must accept wealth redistribution, it's as simple as that.


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05 Apr 2018, 1:09 am

sly279 wrote:
And as I said Bloomberg never has been a republican. He deeply believes in far left ideas.


Do you even know what the far-left is?

The CPUSA is far-left. The US Labor Party is left-wing. The Green Party is left-wing.

The Democratic Party is a corporatist, warmongering party with a somewhat liberal stance on social issues.

Calling the Democratic Party far-left is like asserting that the Nazis were far-left just because they supported animal welfare.

The Democrats are right-wing on every issue that actually matters and truly makes a difference.

... but whatever. You seem to think that the issue of gun rights is the only important issue in our world. Social safety net? War machine? Whatever... I'll vote for anyone who lets me keep my gun. :roll:

Quote:
So no he didn’t switch parties. He’s just a Democrat doing standard democrat stuff. Democrats want to control everything people do.


Tell that to women and LGBT people.


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Sweetleaf
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05 Apr 2018, 1:40 am

Daniel89 wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:

No its paying taxes like citizens are supposed to do, some of which will go into programs that help poor people. Why should the rich get special passes from paying their taxes when the rest of us don't.

Also no there isn't always the option for people to find another job where they will pay them a living wage. There isn't just endless availability of 'a better job' not to mention a lot of labor jobs are investing in machines to replace a lot of human labor force. Maybe in the U.K there is an abundance of better jobs, but not here...its ridiculous someone can work full time even into over-time and still struggle to afford a 1 bedroom apartment.


Who says they are supposed to? What moral right you do have to the products of someone else's labour? There is a huge difference between everyone contributing into a pot for defence and public services and "wealth redistribution" which is just theft.

If you cannot afford a 1 bedroom apartment then why have children? If we had fewer low skilled labourers the value of low skilled labour would increase.


Everyone is supposed to pay taxes, society says that..if people don't want to pay taxes they are free to leave the society. Why should the very wealthy be exempted from paying their fair share in taxes?

Also me and my boyfriend can afford a 1 bedroom apartment but its still a struggle, and neither of us want kids. If I got pregnant I would terminate it, of course some fundie right wingers in the government want to make it more difficult to do that. Also low skill labor will be irrelevant in the not to far future, due to technology increases, machines can replace a lot of jobs people do, at some point that will need to be addressed because at some point it will mean there wont be enough work for everyone.

Also I am on Disability benefits called SSI, so currently I am not working due to disability but you still need income to live so SSI exists.


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Kraichgauer
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05 Apr 2018, 2:01 am

Taxation is NOT theft. It's what makes society function. Without taxation, society eventually would break down, which would mean vast numbers of deaths, eventually including the very rich.
Poor people are not the cause of poverty, but the symptom. It's heartless to put the blame for social ills on the most vulnerable. That's like saying blacks are responsible for racism, or that gays are responsible for homophobia.
Sorry, just had to blurt that out, as I've been feeling it raging inside me all night.


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Daniel89
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05 Apr 2018, 4:33 am

Tollorin wrote:
Daniel89 wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:

Call it "theft" if you want, but money is trickling up and without wealth redistribution society end up been a majority of poor and a minority of insanely wealthy individuals that control everything; it's most likely a mathematical inevitability. Want a prosperous and stable society without the danger of a bloody revolution? Then you must accept wealth redistribution, it's as simple as that.


How exactly is money trickling up? We cannot have a prosperous and stable society by encouraging bad parenting though welfare.



Daniel89
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05 Apr 2018, 4:37 am

Sweetleaf wrote:

Everyone is supposed to pay taxes, society says that..if people don't want to pay taxes they are free to leave the society. Why should the very wealthy be exempted from paying their fair share in taxes?

Also me and my boyfriend can afford a 1 bedroom apartment but its still a struggle, and neither of us want kids. If I got pregnant I would terminate it, of course some fundie right wingers in the government want to make it more difficult to do that. Also low skill labor will be irrelevant in the not to far future, due to technology increases, machines can replace a lot of jobs people do, at some point that will need to be addressed because at some point it will mean there wont be enough work for everyone.

Also I am on Disability benefits called SSI, so currently I am not working due to disability but you still need income to live so SSI exists.


Outside of the US yes people are free to leave if they don't want to pay income taxes that is true. Who determines what exactly is a fair share? Someone who earns more not only pays a higher amount on a higher income but also a higher rate and they use less. If 10 people gang up on someone and steal their property its called theft, how many does it take before its not theft?



Daniel89
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05 Apr 2018, 4:39 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Taxation is NOT theft. It's what makes society function. Without taxation, society eventually would break down, which would mean vast numbers of deaths, eventually including the very rich.
Poor people are not the cause of poverty, but the symptom. It's heartless to put the blame for social ills on the most vulnerable. That's like saying blacks are responsible for racism, or that gays are responsible for homophobia.
Sorry, just had to blurt that out, as I've been feeling it raging inside me all night.


I don't believe taxation is theft, I believe wealth redistribution via taxation is theft. The vast majority of people in poverty are poor because their parents chose to have children they couldn't look after.