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Has this transgender movement gotten out of hand?

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Spooky_Mulder
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22 Aug 2018, 4:17 pm

ironpony wrote:
Spooky_Mulder wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Okay but don't transgender people have some idea why they feel that way? I mean how can they know they have an issue, if they don't know what that issue is, or where it is coming from?


In short: trans women relate more to the experiences and lives women lead more than the experiences and lives that men lead.

For long: this is where youtube is your friend and they (trans people) can describe it more accurately in ways that I can't.


Oh okay. What experiences particularly?


As said, for long - I'm not going to go into it. If you're interested in more in-depth, go to youtube (many trans people have video blogs).



Spooky_Mulder
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22 Aug 2018, 5:17 pm

Just remembered The Good Doctor’s 14th episode of the 1st season ‘She’ dives into transgender people.



The_Walrus
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23 Aug 2018, 2:32 am

OK, necessary mod point: this thread is transphobic. In particular, trying to discredit the idea that trans people are the gender they identify with, and suggesting that mild trans-friendly accommodations are "going too far", is transphobic. I appreciate that the OP has learned a lot from this discussion and is having genuine, good-faith questions addressed, and it seems like the transphobia on the front page has been moved on from, so I'm going to let this discussion run but will be keeping an eye and encourage users to report any transphobic content.

Although WrongPlanet's rules do not explicitly forbid transphobia (only racism, sexism, and homophobia), this is primarily an artefact of the time they were created when transphobia was rarely listed separately from homophobia when people reeled off forms of bigotry. The WrongPlanet rules do forbid offensive content, and the PPR rules explicitly include transphobia (along with biphobia and lesbophobia) under the umbrella of homophobia.

Essentially, questioning whether trans people are "really" their gender is against WrongPlanet rules. This matter is not up for debate.

Those who are interested in learning more about gender identity and trans issues may be interested in visiting website such as this one (Harvard) or this one (APA) or this one (Wikipedia). Also be aware of cases like David Reimer which taught us a lot about the nature of gender. But WrongPlanet is not a place to debate the validity of trans people; here, it is a given.

As I said though, I appreciate that the OP is arguing in complete good faith and is clearly open-minded rather than trying to push a transphobic agenda. Consequently, I am going to let this thread run, both from a commitment to allowing discussion and because I think the good that could come is likely to outweigh the bad.



CockneyRebel
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26 Aug 2018, 10:54 pm

I don't think this transgender movement has gone too far. I'm trans myself. I identify as male. I have an anxious feeling every morning before I leave my apartment. What are people going to be like today? Will I be called by my name or will I be called a female pronoun? How do I handle it when a man wants to hold the door open for me? How do I make my voice even deeper than it already is? I'd feel better wearing the self-made German helmet. I don't want the traditional kind of male attention. Boys get to fight for their countries when they grow up. Girls have to be teachers, nurses and mothers. How could that prostitute on that corner possibly enjoy working in the sex trade? I bet he's gulping down the whey powder and lifting the weights as I'm scanning the parking lots for money.


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karathraceandherspecialdestiny
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26 Aug 2018, 11:33 pm

ironpony wrote:
I just feel that it's gotten way too dramatic now. Sure people have insecurities about themselves and who they are, but I don't think it should to the government passing new laws and new customs.

I read that now they are coming out with gender neutral birth certificates that do not classify the person as a certain gender.

But I feel the law getting involved and acknowledging this now will lead to all sorts of new problems.

For example,

But as far gender goes, I believe when the baby is born and the doctor decides what it is, using their medical expertise, and puts it on the birth certificate, then that is what the baby is FOR THE REST OF THEIR LIVES. But now they are coming out with gender neutral birth certificates I here. At least they are where I live, in Canada:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/ ... ransgender

In that article, one person says that Canada now having this policy will 'save lives'.

SAVE LIVES??? Were babies dying from having the genders being on the birth certificate before?

Some people are treating this like a life and death issue, when they say things like that, I feel like a lot of people are just taking this too seriously.

But maybe not? What do you think?


Gender neutral or third gender birth certificates would be useful for people who are born intersex and their parents don't want to choose a gender for them but would rather wait til they are of age to chose for themselves what gender they want to live as or if they would rather live in the middle, which I think should be a legal choice for people. Even biologically, it's not a perfect binary and it never was, and we should acknowledge the existence of intersex people and let them live how they want to live without forcing surgery on them at birth.