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cberg
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29 Oct 2018, 7:21 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
cberg wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
cberg wrote:
That was my adult response. You compared tasteless arts & crafts to attempted murder.


Try reading my post again and then my response again. Keep following the process until it sinks in.


I did; I just don't agree with protected speech being contextualized anywhere near violent crime, U.S. law obviously doesn't care if it's tasteless, just look at the president.


I never said it was the same. It was more an example of something comparable to Trump's incitement of violence. But people sending ricin to Trump is as bad as the dud bombs.


Well when leaders run about calling this & that 'the enemy of the people', such dangerous things often happen.


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29 Oct 2018, 10:09 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
And for f**k's sake. I didn't want this thread to turn into another 'mah side are good yours are baddies'

Only Bill and the first poster were decent enough to give me an adult response.

So what changes do the Democrats need to make?


Little chance of any thread in PPR developing into a reasoned discussion these days, most threads are quickly dragged into diatribe. Perhaps this is due to the Trump effect? Trump being unable (or unwilling, whichever) to present reasoned speeches, delivers ranting diatribes instead. It has got much worse here in the past year or two.



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30 Oct 2018, 12:14 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Prometheus18 wrote:
The Russiagate hoax is complete nonsense and is perhaps the first time in history that an unsubstantiated (literally entirely unsubstantiated) demonisation campaign has survived in the US media for so long. I'm not a supporter of Trump by the way; I despise him just as much as every other US president in my lifetime, but it's terrifying that any US politician, even a president, can have his reputation thrown into the ground on the basis of complete lies. It's not just Trump either; the corporate mainstream media has actually tried to claim that the Russians conspired for Brexit, too (again, with no evidence). They even claimed Chelsea Manning was a Russian agent. It seems like anybody or anything that might potentially be a threat to the military industrial complex and its corporate interests is blamed on Russia, and that's enough to neutralise the threat, appealing to the native Russophobia of North Americans and Western Europeans. It should be pointed out, fo course, that Trump is far from being a threat to the military industrial complex; in his case, it's a diversionary tactic. While people are being diverted by good-guy/bad-guy nonsense and party politics, Big Business takes away the people's wealth and civil rights by stealth. Trump is a slave of Big Business just as much as Obama was. I bet the two of them have a good laugh at the American public's expense if they ever get together in private.

On the poster's main point, it's true that the Democratic Party would have done a lot better if it had presented a genuinely alternative candidate. If Bernie Sanders had got through the primaries, the Democrats would have won by a landslide, but that's just the thing; nobody with a genuine concern for the good of the American public ever will be allowed to reach a stage where he might be elected into office, because Big Business controls the electroral mechanisms of both parties. I think the only hope for the Americans is if they start voting for third parties, like we're doing in Europe.


Great post. And yes, now when any decision goes the way the establishment didn't want they just blame Russia. Means they don't need to deal with the consequences.


It would definitely help. But also, I want to see American workers have a higher minimum wage in order to give them more buying power, which would provide the warp engine to the economy. That, and holding the banks and business accountable, with the prosecutions to prove that they are. Along with that, make it virtually impossible for business to move industries overseas for the sake of paying impoverished people a starvation wage just to get out of paying American workers a good wage. And don't be afraid to tax people with money - the rich aren't going to starve just because they would have to pay more.


Both parties keep doing that. Only the people of the country can put more pressure than they are under through big business. Change has to come above winning.


Change usually comes though through winning.


It doesn't actually. Both main parties have barely changed anything over the years. The Democrats need to keep losing if they are going to reform. They still haven't learned anything from 2016.


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30 Oct 2018, 12:15 pm

cberg wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
cberg wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
cberg wrote:
That was my adult response. You compared tasteless arts & crafts to attempted murder.


Try reading my post again and then my response again. Keep following the process until it sinks in.


I did; I just don't agree with protected speech being contextualized anywhere near violent crime, U.S. law obviously doesn't care if it's tasteless, just look at the president.


I never said it was the same. It was more an example of something comparable to Trump's incitement of violence. But people sending ricin to Trump is as bad as the dud bombs.


Well when leaders run about calling this & that 'the enemy of the people', such dangerous things often happen.


Nope. People are responsible for their own actions.


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JohnPowell
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30 Oct 2018, 12:17 pm

B19 wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
And for f**k's sake. I didn't want this thread to turn into another 'mah side are good yours are baddies'

Only Bill and the first poster were decent enough to give me an adult response.

So what changes do the Democrats need to make?


Little chance of any thread in PPR developing into a reasoned discussion these days, most threads are quickly dragged into diatribe. Perhaps this is due to the Trump effect? Trump being unable (or unwilling, whichever) to present reasoned speeches, delivers ranting diatribes instead. It has got much worse here in the past year or two.


It's the media and the Democrats who won't accept Trump's democratic victory and yes Trump can't help himself but stir things up.


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Kraichgauer
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30 Oct 2018, 1:00 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Prometheus18 wrote:
The Russiagate hoax is complete nonsense and is perhaps the first time in history that an unsubstantiated (literally entirely unsubstantiated) demonisation campaign has survived in the US media for so long. I'm not a supporter of Trump by the way; I despise him just as much as every other US president in my lifetime, but it's terrifying that any US politician, even a president, can have his reputation thrown into the ground on the basis of complete lies. It's not just Trump either; the corporate mainstream media has actually tried to claim that the Russians conspired for Brexit, too (again, with no evidence). They even claimed Chelsea Manning was a Russian agent. It seems like anybody or anything that might potentially be a threat to the military industrial complex and its corporate interests is blamed on Russia, and that's enough to neutralise the threat, appealing to the native Russophobia of North Americans and Western Europeans. It should be pointed out, fo course, that Trump is far from being a threat to the military industrial complex; in his case, it's a diversionary tactic. While people are being diverted by good-guy/bad-guy nonsense and party politics, Big Business takes away the people's wealth and civil rights by stealth. Trump is a slave of Big Business just as much as Obama was. I bet the two of them have a good laugh at the American public's expense if they ever get together in private.

On the poster's main point, it's true that the Democratic Party would have done a lot better if it had presented a genuinely alternative candidate. If Bernie Sanders had got through the primaries, the Democrats would have won by a landslide, but that's just the thing; nobody with a genuine concern for the good of the American public ever will be allowed to reach a stage where he might be elected into office, because Big Business controls the electroral mechanisms of both parties. I think the only hope for the Americans is if they start voting for third parties, like we're doing in Europe.


Great post. And yes, now when any decision goes the way the establishment didn't want they just blame Russia. Means they don't need to deal with the consequences.


It would definitely help. But also, I want to see American workers have a higher minimum wage in order to give them more buying power, which would provide the warp engine to the economy. That, and holding the banks and business accountable, with the prosecutions to prove that they are. Along with that, make it virtually impossible for business to move industries overseas for the sake of paying impoverished people a starvation wage just to get out of paying American workers a good wage. And don't be afraid to tax people with money - the rich aren't going to starve just because they would have to pay more.


Both parties keep doing that. Only the people of the country can put more pressure than they are under through big business. Change has to come above winning.


Change usually comes though through winning.


It doesn't actually. Both main parties have barely changed anything over the years. The Democrats need to keep losing if they are going to reform. They still haven't learned anything from 2016.


I'm talking about real change, such as universal health coverage, which can only come to pass by winning elections.


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30 Oct 2018, 1:27 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Prometheus18 wrote:
The Russiagate hoax is complete nonsense and is perhaps the first time in history that an unsubstantiated (literally entirely unsubstantiated) demonisation campaign has survived in the US media for so long. I'm not a supporter of Trump by the way; I despise him just as much as every other US president in my lifetime, but it's terrifying that any US politician, even a president, can have his reputation thrown into the ground on the basis of complete lies. It's not just Trump either; the corporate mainstream media has actually tried to claim that the Russians conspired for Brexit, too (again, with no evidence). They even claimed Chelsea Manning was a Russian agent. It seems like anybody or anything that might potentially be a threat to the military industrial complex and its corporate interests is blamed on Russia, and that's enough to neutralise the threat, appealing to the native Russophobia of North Americans and Western Europeans. It should be pointed out, fo course, that Trump is far from being a threat to the military industrial complex; in his case, it's a diversionary tactic. While people are being diverted by good-guy/bad-guy nonsense and party politics, Big Business takes away the people's wealth and civil rights by stealth. Trump is a slave of Big Business just as much as Obama was. I bet the two of them have a good laugh at the American public's expense if they ever get together in private.

On the poster's main point, it's true that the Democratic Party would have done a lot better if it had presented a genuinely alternative candidate. If Bernie Sanders had got through the primaries, the Democrats would have won by a landslide, but that's just the thing; nobody with a genuine concern for the good of the American public ever will be allowed to reach a stage where he might be elected into office, because Big Business controls the electroral mechanisms of both parties. I think the only hope for the Americans is if they start voting for third parties, like we're doing in Europe.


Great post. And yes, now when any decision goes the way the establishment didn't want they just blame Russia. Means they don't need to deal with the consequences.


It would definitely help. But also, I want to see American workers have a higher minimum wage in order to give them more buying power, which would provide the warp engine to the economy. That, and holding the banks and business accountable, with the prosecutions to prove that they are. Along with that, make it virtually impossible for business to move industries overseas for the sake of paying impoverished people a starvation wage just to get out of paying American workers a good wage. And don't be afraid to tax people with money - the rich aren't going to starve just because they would have to pay more.


Both parties keep doing that. Only the people of the country can put more pressure than they are under through big business. Change has to come above winning.


Change usually comes though through winning.


It doesn't actually. Both main parties have barely changed anything over the years. The Democrats need to keep losing if they are going to reform. They still haven't learned anything from 2016.


I'm talking about real change, such as universal health coverage, which can only come to pass by winning elections.


Democrats has the chance and they didn’t do it instead the gave insurance companies more money and ripped Americans off for their own personal gain



Kraichgauer
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30 Oct 2018, 1:49 pm

sly279 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Prometheus18 wrote:
The Russiagate hoax is complete nonsense and is perhaps the first time in history that an unsubstantiated (literally entirely unsubstantiated) demonisation campaign has survived in the US media for so long. I'm not a supporter of Trump by the way; I despise him just as much as every other US president in my lifetime, but it's terrifying that any US politician, even a president, can have his reputation thrown into the ground on the basis of complete lies. It's not just Trump either; the corporate mainstream media has actually tried to claim that the Russians conspired for Brexit, too (again, with no evidence). They even claimed Chelsea Manning was a Russian agent. It seems like anybody or anything that might potentially be a threat to the military industrial complex and its corporate interests is blamed on Russia, and that's enough to neutralise the threat, appealing to the native Russophobia of North Americans and Western Europeans. It should be pointed out, fo course, that Trump is far from being a threat to the military industrial complex; in his case, it's a diversionary tactic. While people are being diverted by good-guy/bad-guy nonsense and party politics, Big Business takes away the people's wealth and civil rights by stealth. Trump is a slave of Big Business just as much as Obama was. I bet the two of them have a good laugh at the American public's expense if they ever get together in private.

On the poster's main point, it's true that the Democratic Party would have done a lot better if it had presented a genuinely alternative candidate. If Bernie Sanders had got through the primaries, the Democrats would have won by a landslide, but that's just the thing; nobody with a genuine concern for the good of the American public ever will be allowed to reach a stage where he might be elected into office, because Big Business controls the electroral mechanisms of both parties. I think the only hope for the Americans is if they start voting for third parties, like we're doing in Europe.


Great post. And yes, now when any decision goes the way the establishment didn't want they just blame Russia. Means they don't need to deal with the consequences.


It would definitely help. But also, I want to see American workers have a higher minimum wage in order to give them more buying power, which would provide the warp engine to the economy. That, and holding the banks and business accountable, with the prosecutions to prove that they are. Along with that, make it virtually impossible for business to move industries overseas for the sake of paying impoverished people a starvation wage just to get out of paying American workers a good wage. And don't be afraid to tax people with money - the rich aren't going to starve just because they would have to pay more.


Both parties keep doing that. Only the people of the country can put more pressure than they are under through big business. Change has to come above winning.


Change usually comes though through winning.


It doesn't actually. Both main parties have barely changed anything over the years. The Democrats need to keep losing if they are going to reform. They still haven't learned anything from 2016.


I'm talking about real change, such as universal health coverage, which can only come to pass by winning elections.


Democrats has the chance and they didn’t do it instead the gave insurance companies more money and ripped Americans off for their own personal gain


Yes, there is an element of truth in that. But the Republicans are a lot worse when it comes to making the insurance and drug companies richer at the expense of the rest of us.


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AspE
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30 Oct 2018, 5:09 pm

sly279 wrote:
elections.
Democrats has the chance and they didn’t do it instead the gave insurance companies more money and ripped Americans off for their own personal gain

The ACA is working so well, the GOP is running on one of its basic provisions. It's stabilizing prices, and by the way, some of those Democrats aren't so liberal, so this bill was a compromise.

Explain why with the Republicans controlling all three branches that they haven't repealed it? They are the cowards. They know their constituency is older and needs it.



sly279
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30 Oct 2018, 6:18 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
sly279 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Prometheus18 wrote:
The Russiagate hoax is complete nonsense and is perhaps the first time in history that an unsubstantiated (literally entirely unsubstantiated) demonisation campaign has survived in the US media for so long. I'm not a supporter of Trump by the way; I despise him just as much as every other US president in my lifetime, but it's terrifying that any US politician, even a president, can have his reputation thrown into the ground on the basis of complete lies. It's not just Trump either; the corporate mainstream media has actually tried to claim that the Russians conspired for Brexit, too (again, with no evidence). They even claimed Chelsea Manning was a Russian agent. It seems like anybody or anything that might potentially be a threat to the military industrial complex and its corporate interests is blamed on Russia, and that's enough to neutralise the threat, appealing to the native Russophobia of North Americans and Western Europeans. It should be pointed out, fo course, that Trump is far from being a threat to the military industrial complex; in his case, it's a diversionary tactic. While people are being diverted by good-guy/bad-guy nonsense and party politics, Big Business takes away the people's wealth and civil rights by stealth. Trump is a slave of Big Business just as much as Obama was. I bet the two of them have a good laugh at the American public's expense if they ever get together in private.

On the poster's main point, it's true that the Democratic Party would have done a lot better if it had presented a genuinely alternative candidate. If Bernie Sanders had got through the primaries, the Democrats would have won by a landslide, but that's just the thing; nobody with a genuine concern for the good of the American public ever will be allowed to reach a stage where he might be elected into office, because Big Business controls the electroral mechanisms of both parties. I think the only hope for the Americans is if they start voting for third parties, like we're doing in Europe.


Great post. And yes, now when any decision goes the way the establishment didn't want they just blame Russia. Means they don't need to deal with the consequences.


It would definitely help. But also, I want to see American workers have a higher minimum wage in order to give them more buying power, which would provide the warp engine to the economy. That, and holding the banks and business accountable, with the prosecutions to prove that they are. Along with that, make it virtually impossible for business to move industries overseas for the sake of paying impoverished people a starvation wage just to get out of paying American workers a good wage. And don't be afraid to tax people with money - the rich aren't going to starve just because they would have to pay more.


Both parties keep doing that. Only the people of the country can put more pressure than they are under through big business. Change has to come above winning.


Change usually comes though through winning.


It doesn't actually. Both main parties have barely changed anything over the years. The Democrats need to keep losing if they are going to reform. They still haven't learned anything from 2016.


I'm talking about real change, such as universal health coverage, which can only come to pass by winning elections.


Democrats has the chance and they didn’t do it instead the gave insurance companies more money and ripped Americans off for their own personal gain


Yes, there is an element of truth in that. But the Republicans are a lot worse when it comes to making the insurance and drug companies richer at the expense of the rest of us.

They equally as ones not worse then the other
You need to accept the truth. The democrat party doesn’t like you they don’t care about you. You mean nothing to them unless you’re a billionaire corporation offering them millions



JohnPowell
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30 Oct 2018, 6:28 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
sly279 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Prometheus18 wrote:
The Russiagate hoax is complete nonsense and is perhaps the first time in history that an unsubstantiated (literally entirely unsubstantiated) demonisation campaign has survived in the US media for so long. I'm not a supporter of Trump by the way; I despise him just as much as every other US president in my lifetime, but it's terrifying that any US politician, even a president, can have his reputation thrown into the ground on the basis of complete lies. It's not just Trump either; the corporate mainstream media has actually tried to claim that the Russians conspired for Brexit, too (again, with no evidence). They even claimed Chelsea Manning was a Russian agent. It seems like anybody or anything that might potentially be a threat to the military industrial complex and its corporate interests is blamed on Russia, and that's enough to neutralise the threat, appealing to the native Russophobia of North Americans and Western Europeans. It should be pointed out, fo course, that Trump is far from being a threat to the military industrial complex; in his case, it's a diversionary tactic. While people are being diverted by good-guy/bad-guy nonsense and party politics, Big Business takes away the people's wealth and civil rights by stealth. Trump is a slave of Big Business just as much as Obama was. I bet the two of them have a good laugh at the American public's expense if they ever get together in private.

On the poster's main point, it's true that the Democratic Party would have done a lot better if it had presented a genuinely alternative candidate. If Bernie Sanders had got through the primaries, the Democrats would have won by a landslide, but that's just the thing; nobody with a genuine concern for the good of the American public ever will be allowed to reach a stage where he might be elected into office, because Big Business controls the electroral mechanisms of both parties. I think the only hope for the Americans is if they start voting for third parties, like we're doing in Europe.


Great post. And yes, now when any decision goes the way the establishment didn't want they just blame Russia. Means they don't need to deal with the consequences.


It would definitely help. But also, I want to see American workers have a higher minimum wage in order to give them more buying power, which would provide the warp engine to the economy. That, and holding the banks and business accountable, with the prosecutions to prove that they are. Along with that, make it virtually impossible for business to move industries overseas for the sake of paying impoverished people a starvation wage just to get out of paying American workers a good wage. And don't be afraid to tax people with money - the rich aren't going to starve just because they would have to pay more.


Both parties keep doing that. Only the people of the country can put more pressure than they are under through big business. Change has to come above winning.


Change usually comes though through winning.


It doesn't actually. Both main parties have barely changed anything over the years. The Democrats need to keep losing if they are going to reform. They still haven't learned anything from 2016.


I'm talking about real change, such as universal health coverage, which can only come to pass by winning elections.


Democrats has the chance and they didn’t do it instead the gave insurance companies more money and ripped Americans off for their own personal gain


Yes, there is an element of truth in that. But the Republicans are a lot worse when it comes to making the insurance and drug companies richer at the expense of the rest of us.


See, this lesser of 2 evils is the problem if you actually want change. Only if the current Democratic party keeps losing and implodes will it ever make the required changes.


_________________
"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"


Kraichgauer
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30 Oct 2018, 7:44 pm

sly279 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
sly279 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Prometheus18 wrote:
The Russiagate hoax is complete nonsense and is perhaps the first time in history that an unsubstantiated (literally entirely unsubstantiated) demonisation campaign has survived in the US media for so long. I'm not a supporter of Trump by the way; I despise him just as much as every other US president in my lifetime, but it's terrifying that any US politician, even a president, can have his reputation thrown into the ground on the basis of complete lies. It's not just Trump either; the corporate mainstream media has actually tried to claim that the Russians conspired for Brexit, too (again, with no evidence). They even claimed Chelsea Manning was a Russian agent. It seems like anybody or anything that might potentially be a threat to the military industrial complex and its corporate interests is blamed on Russia, and that's enough to neutralise the threat, appealing to the native Russophobia of North Americans and Western Europeans. It should be pointed out, fo course, that Trump is far from being a threat to the military industrial complex; in his case, it's a diversionary tactic. While people are being diverted by good-guy/bad-guy nonsense and party politics, Big Business takes away the people's wealth and civil rights by stealth. Trump is a slave of Big Business just as much as Obama was. I bet the two of them have a good laugh at the American public's expense if they ever get together in private.

On the poster's main point, it's true that the Democratic Party would have done a lot better if it had presented a genuinely alternative candidate. If Bernie Sanders had got through the primaries, the Democrats would have won by a landslide, but that's just the thing; nobody with a genuine concern for the good of the American public ever will be allowed to reach a stage where he might be elected into office, because Big Business controls the electroral mechanisms of both parties. I think the only hope for the Americans is if they start voting for third parties, like we're doing in Europe.


Great post. And yes, now when any decision goes the way the establishment didn't want they just blame Russia. Means they don't need to deal with the consequences.


It would definitely help. But also, I want to see American workers have a higher minimum wage in order to give them more buying power, which would provide the warp engine to the economy. That, and holding the banks and business accountable, with the prosecutions to prove that they are. Along with that, make it virtually impossible for business to move industries overseas for the sake of paying impoverished people a starvation wage just to get out of paying American workers a good wage. And don't be afraid to tax people with money - the rich aren't going to starve just because they would have to pay more.


Both parties keep doing that. Only the people of the country can put more pressure than they are under through big business. Change has to come above winning.


Change usually comes though through winning.


It doesn't actually. Both main parties have barely changed anything over the years. The Democrats need to keep losing if they are going to reform. They still haven't learned anything from 2016.


I'm talking about real change, such as universal health coverage, which can only come to pass by winning elections.


Democrats has the chance and they didn’t do it instead the gave insurance companies more money and ripped Americans off for their own personal gain


Yes, there is an element of truth in that. But the Republicans are a lot worse when it comes to making the insurance and drug companies richer at the expense of the rest of us.

They equally as ones not worse then the other
You need to accept the truth. The democrat party doesn’t like you they don’t care about you. You mean nothing to them unless you’re a billionaire corporation offering them millions


It's the Dems who had given us social security and medicare, as well as having fought for civil rights since the '60's. That alone makes them better than the Republicans.


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30 Oct 2018, 7:45 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
sly279 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Prometheus18 wrote:
The Russiagate hoax is complete nonsense and is perhaps the first time in history that an unsubstantiated (literally entirely unsubstantiated) demonisation campaign has survived in the US media for so long. I'm not a supporter of Trump by the way; I despise him just as much as every other US president in my lifetime, but it's terrifying that any US politician, even a president, can have his reputation thrown into the ground on the basis of complete lies. It's not just Trump either; the corporate mainstream media has actually tried to claim that the Russians conspired for Brexit, too (again, with no evidence). They even claimed Chelsea Manning was a Russian agent. It seems like anybody or anything that might potentially be a threat to the military industrial complex and its corporate interests is blamed on Russia, and that's enough to neutralise the threat, appealing to the native Russophobia of North Americans and Western Europeans. It should be pointed out, fo course, that Trump is far from being a threat to the military industrial complex; in his case, it's a diversionary tactic. While people are being diverted by good-guy/bad-guy nonsense and party politics, Big Business takes away the people's wealth and civil rights by stealth. Trump is a slave of Big Business just as much as Obama was. I bet the two of them have a good laugh at the American public's expense if they ever get together in private.

On the poster's main point, it's true that the Democratic Party would have done a lot better if it had presented a genuinely alternative candidate. If Bernie Sanders had got through the primaries, the Democrats would have won by a landslide, but that's just the thing; nobody with a genuine concern for the good of the American public ever will be allowed to reach a stage where he might be elected into office, because Big Business controls the electroral mechanisms of both parties. I think the only hope for the Americans is if they start voting for third parties, like we're doing in Europe.


Great post. And yes, now when any decision goes the way the establishment didn't want they just blame Russia. Means they don't need to deal with the consequences.


It would definitely help. But also, I want to see American workers have a higher minimum wage in order to give them more buying power, which would provide the warp engine to the economy. That, and holding the banks and business accountable, with the prosecutions to prove that they are. Along with that, make it virtually impossible for business to move industries overseas for the sake of paying impoverished people a starvation wage just to get out of paying American workers a good wage. And don't be afraid to tax people with money - the rich aren't going to starve just because they would have to pay more.


Both parties keep doing that. Only the people of the country can put more pressure than they are under through big business. Change has to come above winning.


Change usually comes though through winning.


It doesn't actually. Both main parties have barely changed anything over the years. The Democrats need to keep losing if they are going to reform. They still haven't learned anything from 2016.


I'm talking about real change, such as universal health coverage, which can only come to pass by winning elections.


Democrats has the chance and they didn’t do it instead the gave insurance companies more money and ripped Americans off for their own personal gain


Yes, there is an element of truth in that. But the Republicans are a lot worse when it comes to making the insurance and drug companies richer at the expense of the rest of us.


See, this lesser of 2 evils is the problem if you actually want change. Only if the current Democratic party keeps losing and implodes will it ever make the required changes.


Perhaps.


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30 Oct 2018, 9:18 pm

Darmok wrote:
Our Revolution’s Logic

Angelo Codevilla

In 2010, Claremont Institute Senior Fellow Angelo Codevilla reintroduced the notion of "the ruling class" back into American popular discourse. In 2017, he described contemporary American politics as a "cold civil war." Now he applies the "logic of revolution" to our current political scene.

The primary objective of any people who find themselves in the throes of a revolution is to find ways of diverting its logic from its worst conclusions.

Prior to the 2016 election I explained how America had already “stepped over the threshold of a revolution,” that it was “difficult to imagine how we might step back, and futile to speculate how it might end.” Regardless of who won the election, its sentiments’ growing “volume and intensity” would empower politicians on all sides sure to make us nostalgic for Donald Trump’s and Hilary Clinton’s moderation. Having begun, this revolution would follow its own logic.

What follows dissects that logic. It has unfolded faster than foreseen. Its sentiments’ spiraling volume and intensity have eliminated any possibility of “stepping back.”

The Democratic Party and the millions it represents having refused to accept 2016’s results; having used their positions of power in government and society to prevent the winners from exercising the powers earned by election; declaring in vehement words and violent deeds the illegitimacy, morbidity, even criminality, of persons and ideas contrary to themselves; bet that this “resistance” would so energize their constituencies, and so depress their opponents’, that subsequent elections would prove 2016 to have been an anomaly and further confirm their primacy in America. The 2018 Congressional elections are that strategy’s first major test.


https://americanmind.org/essays/our-revolutions-logic/









...Let's see, Trump and the Reps have rolled back Obama laws and regulations, gotten their own ls and rs through, and the Supreme Court judges they wanted sworn in
. This is the Dems preventing the Reps from " exercising...powers " how? :P Let's remember the Rep leader declaring that their single objective was making Obama a one-term President, too :mrgreen: . This is cooperation how? :?
And Obama actually managed to get more popular votes than any of his opponents both times 8O - although, at one point on Election Night 2012 when it looked like that would not be the case, and Obama would score an Electoral win over a Romney popular majority ( he didn't, in the end) future President Cheez Doodles Spurs sent out a tweet that arguably called for a violent uprising against an Obama 2012 popular defeat but Electoral victory! :skull: :evil: :wink: :roll:


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01 Nov 2018, 6:00 pm

Bill- Well let's imagine that does happen. Do you think it is possible that the Democrats could reform and ditch the sell outs and adopt policies that most Americans want, like a national health service. Or could the party split?

See if the Democrats were focusing on people rather than companies there is a great discussion to be heard about healthcare. Whether a true free market system would work or a national healthcare system.


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01 Nov 2018, 7:50 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
Bill- Well let's imagine that does happen. Do you think it is possible that the Democrats could reform and ditch the sell outs and adopt policies that most Americans want, like a national health service. Or could the party split?

See if the Democrats were focusing on people rather than companies there is a great discussion to be heard about healthcare. Whether a true free market system would work or a national healthcare system.


If there are enough people calling themselves socialists (in truth, most are really not, but rather are hard leftists), there might be hope for the future. Especially since the Clinton wing of the party had done such a stellar job last election (sarcasm), and so might just eventually melt away.


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