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RetroGamer87
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17 Nov 2018, 2:00 am

Click Baity title. Mitochondrial Eve and Y-Chromosomal Adam weren't really "Adam and Eve"


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magz
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17 Nov 2018, 6:19 am

I actually meant Adam and Eve as a symbol of common ancestry of all people.
But anyone can have their interpretations.


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17 Nov 2018, 10:09 am

I heard a comedian say he knew Adam wasn’t a brother, since no way would a brother have given up a rib.


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17 Nov 2018, 3:33 pm

Misslizard wrote:
I heard a comedian say he knew Adam wasn’t a brother, since no way would a brother have given up a rib.
-- Richard Pryor



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17 Nov 2018, 5:01 pm

Fnord wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
I heard a comedian say he knew Adam wasn’t a brother, since no way would a brother have given up a rib.
-- Richard Pryor

Thanks, I couldn’t remember who.


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22 Nov 2018, 11:56 pm

TW1ZTY wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
AspE wrote:
magz wrote:
The myth of Adam and Eve is quite a lot about common ancestry of all humans.
Modern science confirms it with the Recent Out of Africa model.
But if we take it that way - our common ancestors came from Africa and people from Africa have a phenotype of dark skin and curly hair. Some then adapted to cloudy climates by losing their skin pigmentation but it happened millenia later.

So, to bring together the Bibilical metaphor with current knowledge, we should portrait Adam and Eve as Africans, shouldn't we?

Adam and Eve were not even biblically the first people. They were the first Jews.


Dead wrong.

They were the first humans, and they were not the first Jews. Adam and Eve were created only a week after the earth and the whole cosmos were created. No humans existed prior according the Bible as we know it.

The first Jews were centuries later even according the Bible.

Humans interacted with Jehovah, in Genisis (Adam and Eve, and Noah etc) but they had not yet made covenant with God. That was Abraham (about 2000 years after Adam and Eve).


Well in the Jewish religion Adam had a wife before Eve named Lilith who ran away from the Garden of Eden and became a demon.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lilith

She's not mentioned in the Christain version of the story.


That gets me to wondering if maybe Lilith might have warped into Satin.


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CockneyRebel
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22 Nov 2018, 11:59 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Yep.....I believe in the "out of Africa" model.

It doesn't matter if they were "black." The concept of "race" didn't when Man arose from Australopithecus.


I also believe that model as well. They appear to have had the dark skin and tightly curly hair.


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RetroGamer87
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23 Nov 2018, 2:01 am

CockneyRebel wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
AspE wrote:
magz wrote:
The myth of Adam and Eve is quite a lot about common ancestry of all humans.
Modern science confirms it with the Recent Out of Africa model.
But if we take it that way - our common ancestors came from Africa and people from Africa have a phenotype of dark skin and curly hair. Some then adapted to cloudy climates by losing their skin pigmentation but it happened millenia later.

So, to bring together the Bibilical metaphor with current knowledge, we should portrait Adam and Eve as Africans, shouldn't we?

Adam and Eve were not even biblically the first people. They were the first Jews.


Dead wrong.

They were the first humans, and they were not the first Jews. Adam and Eve were created only a week after the earth and the whole cosmos were created. No humans existed prior according the Bible as we know it.

The first Jews were centuries later even according the Bible.

Humans interacted with Jehovah, in Genisis (Adam and Eve, and Noah etc) but they had not yet made covenant with God. That was Abraham (about 2000 years after Adam and Eve).


Well in the Jewish religion Adam had a wife before Eve named Lilith who ran away from the Garden of Eden and became a demon.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lilith

She's not mentioned in the Christain version of the story.


That gets me to wondering if maybe Lilith might have warped into Satin.


I have heard two accounts of the origin of Satan. One is that Satan was God's judge, in the Book of Job. This theory says that Satan was not the villian of the Book of Job but God's faithful servent, acting in the capacity of God's judge.

The second theory I've heard is that the myth of Satan comes from the exile in Babylon. Their the rabbis were influenced by either Babylon's religion or by Zoroastrianism. From one of these religiouns the rabbis picked the idea of a good guy, God, from whence commeth all things bright and beautiful and a bad guy, Satan, from whence commeth all things bad and ugly. Before this the earlier rabbis said God made all things good and bad.


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RetroGamer87
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23 Nov 2018, 2:04 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Yep.....I believe in the "out of Africa" model.

It doesn't matter if they were "black." The concept of "race" didn't when Man arose from Australopithecus.
Back I those days it mattered a lot more. When the races of man were actually different species.

Not that Australopithecus lived orders of magnitude earlier than our flight from Africa.


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The_Face_of_Boo
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26 Nov 2018, 4:57 am

RetroGamer87 wrote:
CockneyRebel wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
AspE wrote:
magz wrote:
The myth of Adam and Eve is quite a lot about common ancestry of all humans.
Modern science confirms it with the Recent Out of Africa model.
But if we take it that way - our common ancestors came from Africa and people from Africa have a phenotype of dark skin and curly hair. Some then adapted to cloudy climates by losing their skin pigmentation but it happened millenia later.

So, to bring together the Bibilical metaphor with current knowledge, we should portrait Adam and Eve as Africans, shouldn't we?

Adam and Eve were not even biblically the first people. They were the first Jews.


Dead wrong.

They were the first humans, and they were not the first Jews. Adam and Eve were created only a week after the earth and the whole cosmos were created. No humans existed prior according the Bible as we know it.

The first Jews were centuries later even according the Bible.

Humans interacted with Jehovah, in Genisis (Adam and Eve, and Noah etc) but they had not yet made covenant with God. That was Abraham (about 2000 years after Adam and Eve).


Well in the Jewish religion Adam had a wife before Eve named Lilith who ran away from the Garden of Eden and became a demon.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lilith

She's not mentioned in the Christain version of the story.


That gets me to wondering if maybe Lilith might have warped into Satin.


I have heard two accounts of the origin of Satan. One is that Satan was God's judge, in the Book of Job. This theory says that Satan was not the villian of the Book of Job but God's faithful servent, acting in the capacity of God's judge.

The second theory I've heard is that the myth of Satan comes from the exile in Babylon. Their the rabbis were influenced by either Babylon's religion or by Zoroastrianism. From one of these religiouns the rabbis picked the idea of a good guy, God, from whence commeth all things bright and beautiful and a bad guy, Satan, from whence commeth all things bad and ugly. Before this the earlier rabbis said God made all things good and bad.


In common Christianity Satan is a fallen angel who refused to bow before Adam.

In Islam, Satan was the first Djinn, a powerful demo-like creature created from fire (like how Adam was created from mud), he got banished from the heavens for refusing to bow before Adam (Djinn's original sin) and his descendants became the fictional djinns that Muslim still believe in. In Islam angels are infallible, hence why the Christian version of Satan doesn't make sense to them.



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26 Nov 2018, 7:27 am

Sure but I'm more interested in the origin of the myth, not the origin within the myth.


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26 Nov 2018, 8:10 am

World's languages traced back to single African mother tongue

Wouldn't it be grand if all the world's racists were to take vows of silence in protest?



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27 Nov 2018, 5:31 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
RetroGamer87 wrote:
CockneyRebel wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
AspE wrote:
magz wrote:
The myth of Adam and Eve is quite a lot about common ancestry of all humans.
Modern science confirms it with the Recent Out of Africa model.
But if we take it that way - our common ancestors came from Africa and people from Africa have a phenotype of dark skin and curly hair. Some then adapted to cloudy climates by losing their skin pigmentation but it happened millenia later.

So, to bring together the Bibilical metaphor with current knowledge, we should portrait Adam and Eve as Africans, shouldn't we?

Adam and Eve were not even biblically the first people. They were the first Jews.


Dead wrong.

They were the first humans, and they were not the first Jews. Adam and Eve were created only a week after the earth and the whole cosmos were created. No humans existed prior according the Bible as we know it.

The first Jews were centuries later even according the Bible.

Humans interacted with Jehovah, in Genisis (Adam and Eve, and Noah etc) but they had not yet made covenant with God. That was Abraham (about 2000 years after Adam and Eve).


Well in the Jewish religion Adam had a wife before Eve named Lilith who ran away from the Garden of Eden and became a demon.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lilith

She's not mentioned in the Christain version of the story.


That gets me to wondering if maybe Lilith might have warped into Satin.


I have heard two accounts of the origin of Satan. One is that Satan was God's judge, in the Book of Job. This theory says that Satan was not the villian of the Book of Job but God's faithful servent, acting in the capacity of God's judge.

The second theory I've heard is that the myth of Satan comes from the exile in Babylon. Their the rabbis were influenced by either Babylon's religion or by Zoroastrianism. From one of these religiouns the rabbis picked the idea of a good guy, God, from whence commeth all things bright and beautiful and a bad guy, Satan, from whence commeth all things bad and ugly. Before this the earlier rabbis said God made all things good and bad.


In common Christianity Satan is a fallen angel who refused to bow before Adam.

.


Are you sure that you got the story right?

Satan was an angel who refused to bow to....God. That was his crime.

No one expected him to bow before a lowly regular human like Adam.



The_Face_of_Boo
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27 Nov 2018, 1:55 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
RetroGamer87 wrote:
CockneyRebel wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
AspE wrote:
magz wrote:
The myth of Adam and Eve is quite a lot about common ancestry of all humans.
Modern science confirms it with the Recent Out of Africa model.
But if we take it that way - our common ancestors came from Africa and people from Africa have a phenotype of dark skin and curly hair. Some then adapted to cloudy climates by losing their skin pigmentation but it happened millenia later.

So, to bring together the Bibilical metaphor with current knowledge, we should portrait Adam and Eve as Africans, shouldn't we?

Adam and Eve were not even biblically the first people. They were the first Jews.


Dead wrong.

They were the first humans, and they were not the first Jews. Adam and Eve were created only a week after the earth and the whole cosmos were created. No humans existed prior according the Bible as we know it.

The first Jews were centuries later even according the Bible.

Humans interacted with Jehovah, in Genisis (Adam and Eve, and Noah etc) but they had not yet made covenant with God. That was Abraham (about 2000 years after Adam and Eve).


Well in the Jewish religion Adam had a wife before Eve named Lilith who ran away from the Garden of Eden and became a demon.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lilith

She's not mentioned in the Christain version of the story.


That gets me to wondering if maybe Lilith might have warped into Satin.


I have heard two accounts of the origin of Satan. One is that Satan was God's judge, in the Book of Job. This theory says that Satan was not the villian of the Book of Job but God's faithful servent, acting in the capacity of God's judge.

The second theory I've heard is that the myth of Satan comes from the exile in Babylon. Their the rabbis were influenced by either Babylon's religion or by Zoroastrianism. From one of these religiouns the rabbis picked the idea of a good guy, God, from whence commeth all things bright and beautiful and a bad guy, Satan, from whence commeth all things bad and ugly. Before this the earlier rabbis said God made all things good and bad.


In common Christianity Satan is a fallen angel who refused to bow before Adam.

.


Are you sure that you got the story right?

Satan was an angel who refused to bow to....God. That was his crime.

No one expected him to bow before a lowly regular human like Adam.



Hmm then I got mixed up that tiny detail with the islamic version:

Satan was the djinni and was asked by God to bow beforr Adam, he refused because he believed he’s superior to mankind.

From wiki:

“Then God created Adam, He ordered all the angels to bow before the new creation. All the angels bowed down, but Iblis refused to do so. He argued that since he himself was created from fire, he is superior to humans, made from mud, and that he should not prostrate himself before Adam.[17] For his haughtiness, he was banished from heaven and condemned to hell. Therefore, Iblis made a request for the ability to try to mislead Adam and his descendants. God grants his request but also warned that he will have no power over God's servants.[18]”


One aspect that both stories have in common is the belief that Satan/iblis/lucifer had a free will, but Muslims believe that angels (angels in islam are total wimp) totaly lack free will hence why they don’t believe Satan was a angel but rather the first djinni (fire being).



RetroGamer87
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27 Nov 2018, 10:53 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
RetroGamer87 wrote:
CockneyRebel wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
AspE wrote:
magz wrote:
The myth of Adam and Eve is quite a lot about common ancestry of all humans.
Modern science confirms it with the Recent Out of Africa model.
But if we take it that way - our common ancestors came from Africa and people from Africa have a phenotype of dark skin and curly hair. Some then adapted to cloudy climates by losing their skin pigmentation but it happened millenia later.

So, to bring together the Bibilical metaphor with current knowledge, we should portrait Adam and Eve as Africans, shouldn't we?

Adam and Eve were not even biblically the first people. They were the first Jews.


Dead wrong.

They were the first humans, and they were not the first Jews. Adam and Eve were created only a week after the earth and the whole cosmos were created. No humans existed prior according the Bible as we know it.

The first Jews were centuries later even according the Bible.

Humans interacted with Jehovah, in Genisis (Adam and Eve, and Noah etc) but they had not yet made covenant with God. That was Abraham (about 2000 years after Adam and Eve).


Well in the Jewish religion Adam had a wife before Eve named Lilith who ran away from the Garden of Eden and became a demon.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lilith

She's not mentioned in the Christain version of the story.


That gets me to wondering if maybe Lilith might have warped into Satin.


I have heard two accounts of the origin of Satan. One is that Satan was God's judge, in the Book of Job. This theory says that Satan was not the villian of the Book of Job but God's faithful servent, acting in the capacity of God's judge.

The second theory I've heard is that the myth of Satan comes from the exile in Babylon. Their the rabbis were influenced by either Babylon's religion or by Zoroastrianism. From one of these religiouns the rabbis picked the idea of a good guy, God, from whence commeth all things bright and beautiful and a bad guy, Satan, from whence commeth all things bad and ugly. Before this the earlier rabbis said God made all things good and bad.


In common Christianity Satan is a fallen angel who refused to bow before Adam.

.


Are you sure that you got the story right?

Satan was an angel who refused to bow to....God. That was his crime.

No one expected him to bow before a lowly regular human like Adam.



I don't know about the Muslim version but in the Bible, Genesis doesn't mention Satan being asked to bow to anyone.


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28 Nov 2018, 5:35 am

You are right. ^^^

Alexander Hamilton, and Ben Franklin, are the only presidents of the US who were....never president of the US!
But they are both among "the dead presidents" on the money anyway.

Likewise there is a major "Bible" story known throughout the Christian world that is...nowhere to be found anywhere in the Bible. Nowhere in either Testament. Its a kind of folk tradition that grew over the centuries alongside the Bible like a vine on a tree trunk. And that is the story about Satan and how he got to be Satan. He lead a rebellion of angels against god, or ….in some versions all he did was to just stop venerating god for one moment, but either way he got squashed by god and got sent to the underworld, and then he took up the job of leading the forces of darkness from his new subterranean abode. But either way none of that drama appears anywhere in the actual Bible.

But this Christian non Bible tradition only involves Satan (a fallen angel)and God duking it out. It doesn't mention Adam at all.

Apparently the Koran added that obsession with ranking the three (God, mankind, the Devil) to the story to make a whole separate tradition.