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'The Squad' is Destroying the Democrats

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ASPartOfMe
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24 Jul 2019, 1:12 pm

beneficii wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
beneficii wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Let me try and whitesplain this. The idea you can not be allowed to explain what racism is because you are white is racist.

Back to the topic of the "The Squad". The 4 congresswomen are not destroying the Democrats, the enabling of them by other democrats is.


What do you expect Democrats do? Throw them to the wolves? Trump told them to leave the country, which is completely unacceptable. Of course we're going to support them.

I guess you guys believe that doing the wrong thing is what wins you elections. That shows your cynical view of this country, that you believe Americans are inherently cruel and racist, and thus Trump is perfect for them.

Personally, I continue to have hope.

I am cynical about it because I have been observing American elections for decades and playing to fears is most often a winning strategy(Democrates with Trump is the next Hitler do it also). I do think the squad's combination world view of "democratic socialism" and intersectionality is a quite arguably a good strategy for winning elections in a decade or so as the younger voters tend to think that way more than older voters. But Trump needs to be beaten next year and historically older voters vote more often. While the squad has gotten the publicity most of the Democrats that were elected in last years blue wave ran on more traditional democrat platforms. Most of the Democratic presidential candidates are moving away from traditional Democrat themes to more socialists and identity themes because they think a high percentage of the democratic primary voters are Justice Democrats. A squad type Democrat might beat Trump because Trump is so unpopular but if that person puts some of those policies in place as President that person will be a one-term president and a more skilled right wing authoritarian type then Trump could follow.


Actually, programs like Medicare For All have majority popularity, assuming you sell it right and not assume that it's their private insurance plan people most want to keep, but their doctor and hospital:

https://morningconsult.com/2019/07/02/m ... ders-stay/

Of course, y'all fall in the trap of making it seem like losing your private plan means losing your doctor. In a universal plan, like Medicare For All, all doctors are brought into it.

In most "democratic socialist" countries private insurance has not been taken away, it remains an option for those who can afford it.

I would agree that squad type democrats are poor sellers at least for the short term. Even if by some miracle they come up with a plan where everybody can get every health service they want for free in a timely matter that does not further bankrupt the country if people won't accept it and it can't get passed what good will it do?


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Last edited by ASPartOfMe on 24 Jul 2019, 1:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ASPartOfMe
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24 Jul 2019, 1:14 pm

Fnord wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Pepe wrote:
'The Squad' is destroying the Democrats.
Wrong. The Democrats have been on a path of self-destruction for decades. "The Squad" is only the most recent symptom.
We have a winner.
Just replace "Democrats" with "Republicans" and "The Squad" with "The MAGA Crowd", and I'll have two winning entries!

:D

Yes we do :(


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24 Jul 2019, 1:19 pm

I think corporate Dems and Pubs are a far greater threat than the "Squad" or the MAGA hat crowd. Both are responsible for creating the environment that put Trump in the White House.


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24 Jul 2019, 2:03 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
beneficii wrote:
Wolfram87 wrote:
Quote:
Trump told them to leave the country, which is completely unacceptable.


He did also tell them to come back.


I'm not going to explain to you why that makes it even more problematic, because as Ronald Reagan says, if you're explaining, you're losing. I see the trap you conservatives are trying to put liberals in.

We are going to stand by Americans against racist jerks like Trump, who is trying to play the old game of divide and conquer on America. This game of divide and conquer goes all the way back to Bacon's Rebellion, where the elite has played white and black people off against each other to prevent the development of class consciousness.

We're not falling for it this time.


The political establishment, the media, and the oligarchs that control our government are all invested in the "divide and conquer" game. You are playing right along by only bashing Republicans and the right, while ignoring the crimes of Democrats and the left.


No. That's not what we're doing.


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beneficii
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24 Jul 2019, 2:06 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
I think corporate Dems and Pubs are a far greater threat than the "Squad" or the MAGA hat crowd. Both are responsible for creating the environment that put Trump in the White House.


Have you heard of TYT?


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beneficii
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24 Jul 2019, 2:07 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
beneficii wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
beneficii wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Let me try and whitesplain this. The idea you can not be allowed to explain what racism is because you are white is racist.

Back to the topic of the "The Squad". The 4 congresswomen are not destroying the Democrats, the enabling of them by other democrats is.


What do you expect Democrats do? Throw them to the wolves? Trump told them to leave the country, which is completely unacceptable. Of course we're going to support them.

I guess you guys believe that doing the wrong thing is what wins you elections. That shows your cynical view of this country, that you believe Americans are inherently cruel and racist, and thus Trump is perfect for them.

Personally, I continue to have hope.

I am cynical about it because I have been observing American elections for decades and playing to fears is most often a winning strategy(Democrates with Trump is the next Hitler do it also). I do think the squad's combination world view of "democratic socialism" and intersectionality is a quite arguably a good strategy for winning elections in a decade or so as the younger voters tend to think that way more than older voters. But Trump needs to be beaten next year and historically older voters vote more often. While the squad has gotten the publicity most of the Democrats that were elected in last years blue wave ran on more traditional democrat platforms. Most of the Democratic presidential candidates are moving away from traditional Democrat themes to more socialists and identity themes because they think a high percentage of the democratic primary voters are Justice Democrats. A squad type Democrat might beat Trump because Trump is so unpopular but if that person puts some of those policies in place as President that person will be a one-term president and a more skilled right wing authoritarian type then Trump could follow.


Actually, programs like Medicare For All have majority popularity, assuming you sell it right and not assume that it's their private insurance plan people most want to keep, but their doctor and hospital:

https://morningconsult.com/2019/07/02/m ... ders-stay/

Of course, y'all fall in the trap of making it seem like losing your private plan means losing your doctor. In a universal plan, like Medicare For All, all doctors are brought into it.

In most "democratic socialist" countries private insurance has not been taken away, it remains an option for those who can afford it.

I would agree that squad type democrats are poor sellers at least for the short term. Even if by some miracle they come up with a plan where everybody can get every health service they want for free in a timely matter that does not further bankrupt the country if people won't accept it and it can't get passed what good will it do?


Well, there's Medicare For All.


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24 Jul 2019, 2:17 pm

beneficii wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
I think corporate Dems and Pubs are a far greater threat than the "Squad" or the MAGA hat crowd. Both are responsible for creating the environment that put Trump in the White House.


Have you heard of TYT?


Yeah. I used to watch them periodically, but I can't stand to listen to them any more.


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beneficii
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24 Jul 2019, 2:19 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
beneficii wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
I think corporate Dems and Pubs are a far greater threat than the "Squad" or the MAGA hat crowd. Both are responsible for creating the environment that put Trump in the White House.


Have you heard of TYT?


Yeah. I used to watch them periodically, but I can't stand to listen to them any more.


Why? Via efforts like Wolf-PAC and the Justice Democrats, as well as coverage on their show, TYT is specifically making an effort to go after corporate Democrats and Republicans and get money out of politics. That was the exact problem you mentioned as the greater threat. Why can't you stand them?


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24 Jul 2019, 2:24 pm

beneficii wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
beneficii wrote:
Wolfram87 wrote:
Quote:
Trump told them to leave the country, which is completely unacceptable.


He did also tell them to come back.


I'm not going to explain to you why that makes it even more problematic, because as Ronald Reagan says, if you're explaining, you're losing. I see the trap you conservatives are trying to put liberals in.

We are going to stand by Americans against racist jerks like Trump, who is trying to play the old game of divide and conquer on America. This game of divide and conquer goes all the way back to Bacon's Rebellion, where the elite has played white and black people off against each other to prevent the development of class consciousness.

We're not falling for it this time.


The political establishment, the media, and the oligarchs that control our government are all invested in the "divide and conquer" game. You are playing right along by only bashing Republicans and the right, while ignoring the crimes of Democrats and the left.


No. That's not what we're doing.


It's certainly not my perception. Right here in this thread you called someone a conservative, who in fact isn't, simply because his opinion didn't jive with yours. I can't count the number of times I've been called a Trump supporter simply for not buying into Russiagate. That as partisan as it gets.


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24 Jul 2019, 2:28 pm

beneficii wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
beneficii wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
I think corporate Dems and Pubs are a far greater threat than the "Squad" or the MAGA hat crowd. Both are responsible for creating the environment that put Trump in the White House.


Have you heard of TYT?


Yeah. I used to watch them periodically, but I can't stand to listen to them any more.


Why? Via efforts like Wolf-PAC and the Justice Democrats, as well as coverage on their show, TYT is specifically making an effort to go after corporate Democrats and Republicans and get money out of politics. That was the exact problem you mentioned as the greater threat. Why can't you stand them?


Yes, they do that to some extent, which is an improvement over MSM. Still, they're a bit too partisan in my opinion. Jimmy Dore used to on that network, but left for the reasons I said. I'm highly supportive of Dore's channel, along with other independent journalists like Chris Hedges, Max Bluementhal, and Aarron Mate.


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24 Jul 2019, 2:48 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
beneficii wrote:
Wolfram87 wrote:
Quote:
Trump told them to leave the country, which is completely unacceptable.


He did also tell them to come back.


I'm not going to explain to you why that makes it even more problematic, because as Ronald Reagan says, if you're explaining, you're losing. I see the trap you conservatives are trying to put liberals in.

We are going to stand by Americans against racist jerks like Trump, who is trying to play the old game of divide and conquer on America. This game of divide and conquer goes all the way back to Bacon's Rebellion, where the elite has played white and black people off against each other to prevent the development of class consciousness.

We're not falling for it this time.


The political establishment, the media, and the oligarchs that control our government are all invested in the "divide and conquer" game. You are playing right along by only bashing Republicans and the right, while ignoring the crimes of Democrats and the left.


This exists on both sides...there are a lot of right wingers who exclusively bash the left/democrats only while being perfectly ok with the extremism on their side.


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beneficii
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24 Jul 2019, 2:51 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
beneficii wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
beneficii wrote:
Wolfram87 wrote:
Quote:
Trump told them to leave the country, which is completely unacceptable.


He did also tell them to come back.


I'm not going to explain to you why that makes it even more problematic, because as Ronald Reagan says, if you're explaining, you're losing. I see the trap you conservatives are trying to put liberals in.

We are going to stand by Americans against racist jerks like Trump, who is trying to play the old game of divide and conquer on America. This game of divide and conquer goes all the way back to Bacon's Rebellion, where the elite has played white and black people off against each other to prevent the development of class consciousness.

We're not falling for it this time.


The political establishment, the media, and the oligarchs that control our government are all invested in the "divide and conquer" game. You are playing right along by only bashing Republicans and the right, while ignoring the crimes of Democrats and the left.


No. That's not what we're doing.


It's certainly not my perception. Right here in this thread you called someone a conservative, who in fact isn't, simply because his opinion didn't jive with yours. I can't count the number of times I've been called a Trump supporter simply for not buying into Russiagate. That as partisan as it gets.


We also see Trump as a threat, due to his racism and the way he has treated children at the border.

Surely, as someone who decries the "regressive left", you do care about how children at the border are treated, right?


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VegetableMan
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24 Jul 2019, 2:51 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
beneficii wrote:
Wolfram87 wrote:
Quote:
Trump told them to leave the country, which is completely unacceptable.


He did also tell them to come back.


I'm not going to explain to you why that makes it even more problematic, because as Ronald Reagan says, if you're explaining, you're losing. I see the trap you conservatives are trying to put liberals in.

We are going to stand by Americans against racist jerks like Trump, who is trying to play the old game of divide and conquer on America. This game of divide and conquer goes all the way back to Bacon's Rebellion, where the elite has played white and black people off against each other to prevent the development of class consciousness.

We're not falling for it this time.


The political establishment, the media, and the oligarchs that control our government are all invested in the "divide and conquer" game. You are playing right along by only bashing Republicans and the right, while ignoring the crimes of Democrats and the left.


This exists on both sides...there are a lot of right wingers who exclusively bash the left/democrats only while being perfectly ok with the extremism on their side.


Yes, that's right. I'm pretty sure I've said that many times.


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24 Jul 2019, 2:55 pm

beneficii wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
beneficii wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
beneficii wrote:
Wolfram87 wrote:
Quote:
Trump told them to leave the country, which is completely unacceptable.


He did also tell them to come back.


I'm not going to explain to you why that makes it even more problematic, because as Ronald Reagan says, if you're explaining, you're losing. I see the trap you conservatives are trying to put liberals in.

We are going to stand by Americans against racist jerks like Trump, who is trying to play the old game of divide and conquer on America. This game of divide and conquer goes all the way back to Bacon's Rebellion, where the elite has played white and black people off against each other to prevent the development of class consciousness.

We're not falling for it this time.


The political establishment, the media, and the oligarchs that control our government are all invested in the "divide and conquer" game. You are playing right along by only bashing Republicans and the right, while ignoring the crimes of Democrats and the left.


No. That's not what we're doing.


It's certainly not my perception. Right here in this thread you called someone a conservative, who in fact isn't, simply because his opinion didn't jive with yours. I can't count the number of times I've been called a Trump supporter simply for not buying into Russiagate. That as partisan as it gets.


We also see Trump as a threat, due to his racism and the way he has treated children at the border.

Surely, as someone who decries the "regressive left", you do care about how children at the border are treated, right?


Yes I do. And I cared about them when it was happening under Obama, while the MSM said nothing about it.


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beneficii
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24 Jul 2019, 3:00 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
beneficii wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
beneficii wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
beneficii wrote:
Wolfram87 wrote:
Quote:
Trump told them to leave the country, which is completely unacceptable.


He did also tell them to come back.


I'm not going to explain to you why that makes it even more problematic, because as Ronald Reagan says, if you're explaining, you're losing. I see the trap you conservatives are trying to put liberals in.

We are going to stand by Americans against racist jerks like Trump, who is trying to play the old game of divide and conquer on America. This game of divide and conquer goes all the way back to Bacon's Rebellion, where the elite has played white and black people off against each other to prevent the development of class consciousness.

We're not falling for it this time.


The political establishment, the media, and the oligarchs that control our government are all invested in the "divide and conquer" game. You are playing right along by only bashing Republicans and the right, while ignoring the crimes of Democrats and the left.


No. That's not what we're doing.


It's certainly not my perception. Right here in this thread you called someone a conservative, who in fact isn't, simply because his opinion didn't jive with yours. I can't count the number of times I've been called a Trump supporter simply for not buying into Russiagate. That as partisan as it gets.


We also see Trump as a threat, due to his racism and the way he has treated children at the border.

Surely, as someone who decries the "regressive left", you do care about how children at the border are treated, right?


Yes I do. And I cared about them when it was happening under Obama, while the MSM said nothing about it.


Obama was no angel, but to his credit here he did his best to ensure children weren't treated this way. Trump came in with a "zero tolerance" policy that made it much worse. It's like how right-wing violence is much more severe than left-wing violence, but you would say that since it happens on the left too, then the left is just as bad. I guess if person A commits simple battery and person B commits murder, you'd say they're about the same?


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24 Jul 2019, 3:32 pm

beneficii wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
beneficii wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
beneficii wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
beneficii wrote:
Wolfram87 wrote:
Quote:
Trump told them to leave the country, which is completely unacceptable.


He did also tell them to come back.


I'm not going to explain to you why that makes it even more problematic, because as Ronald Reagan says, if you're explaining, you're losing. I see the trap you conservatives are trying to put liberals in.

We are going to stand by Americans against racist jerks like Trump, who is trying to play the old game of divide and conquer on America. This game of divide and conquer goes all the way back to Bacon's Rebellion, where the elite has played white and black people off against each other to prevent the development of class consciousness.

We're not falling for it this time.


The political establishment, the media, and the oligarchs that control our government are all invested in the "divide and conquer" game. You are playing right along by only bashing Republicans and the right, while ignoring the crimes of Democrats and the left.


No. That's not what we're doing.


It's certainly not my perception. Right here in this thread you called someone a conservative, who in fact isn't, simply because his opinion didn't jive with yours. I can't count the number of times I've been called a Trump supporter simply for not buying into Russiagate. That as partisan as it gets.


We also see Trump as a threat, due to his racism and the way he has treated children at the border.

Surely, as someone who decries the "regressive left", you do care about how children at the border are treated, right?


Yes I do. And I cared about them when it was happening under Obama, while the MSM said nothing about it.


Obama was no angel, but to his credit here he did his best to ensure children weren't treated this way. Trump came in with a "zero tolerance" policy that made it much worse. It's like how right-wing violence is much more severe than left-wing violence, but you would say that since it happens on the left too, then the left is just as bad. I guess if person A commits simple battery and person B commits murder, you'd say they're about the same?


Trump may be worse, but Obama was very little better. If he was really trying, then children wouldn't have wound up in the hands of human traffickers. And a couple of the images of children in cages attributed to Trump were actually taken during the Obama administration.


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