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kraftiekortie
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28 Dec 2019, 2:50 pm

Obviously, Russia was in the Allies. I’d be a dolt if I didn’t know that.

I’m talking about how both defeated the Nazis.

I’d be a dolt if I didn’t know that Russia had about 50 to 100 times more casualties than the Americans.



QFT
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28 Dec 2019, 3:52 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Obviously, Russia was in the Allies. I’d be a dolt if I didn’t know that.

I’m talking about how both defeated the Nazis.

I’d be a dolt if I didn’t know that Russia had about 50 to 100 times more casualties than the Americans.


On the one hand you said "I'd be a dolt if I didn't know ...." and, on the other hand, you made statements that indicate you, in fact, didn't know these things (as evident by specific things I quoted you saying). So are you saying you know these things but you are unconsciously suppressing this knowledge? Or where are you coming from?



kraftiekortie
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28 Dec 2019, 5:01 pm

You totally misinterpreted what I said. What’s the use of that? Are you just intent on creating a difference of opinion when there is none?

I said that the Eastern Front (Russia) was of use to the Allied cause. Where did I say that Russia wasn’t part of the Allies in making that statement? 99% of the people who study WW II know that Russia was a member of the Allies, and not the Axis.



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28 Dec 2019, 8:20 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
I said that the Eastern Front (Russia) was of use to the Allied cause. Where did I say that Russia wasn’t part of the Allies in making that statement?


You said that "allies would have had harder time" if Russia didn't help. Well, if Russia is part of allies, then that statement wouldn't be true: one of the allied countries -- namely Russia -- would have had *easier* time. The countries that would have harder time are the western front -- so you were implicitly referring to western front as allies.

kraftiekortie wrote:
99% of the people who study WW II know that Russia was a member of the Allies, and not the Axis.


I grant them that. But ask them a further question: which of the allies did most of the work? I bet they would say America when the right answer is Russia. This is evident by what a poster just a few posts up said when he said "America destroyed Nazis to make life easier to Russia". That statement acknowledges that Russia was against Nazis -- yet it acts as if America did most of the work destroying Nazis when its not true.

I guess what you said is not as bad: at least you said they did it half and half rather than saying America did most of it. But its still off. The fact is that Russia did most of it, as evident from Russia losing much more soldiers than America didn't. You said in subsequent reply you know Russia lost a lot more soldiers. But, if so, how come you said in previosu reply they contributted equally?



kraftiekortie
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28 Dec 2019, 9:31 pm

They contributed equally in defeating the Nazis.

The Russians sacrificed more.



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28 Dec 2019, 9:51 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
They contributed equally in defeating the Nazis.

The Russians sacrificed more.


In what sense was it equal? Can you elaborate?



kraftiekortie
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29 Dec 2019, 12:44 am

It might be more correct to say that the combined western allies might have only has a slighter greater role in defeating the Nazis than the Russians.



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29 Dec 2019, 2:45 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
It might be more correct to say that the combined western allies might have only has a slighter greater role in defeating the Nazis than the Russians.


How can you say they played the same role (let alone slightly greater role) if they didn't lose even the small fraction of the soldiers Russia lost?



kraftiekortie
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29 Dec 2019, 6:37 am

You just want to argue.

The Russians sacrificed the most, by far.



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29 Dec 2019, 9:28 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
You just want to argue.

The Russians sacrificed the most, by far.


Maybe you are on to something that I miss. I was assuming that people who don't say Russians contributed the most also wouldn't say they sacrificed the most yet you do. So what is the difference between contributing the most and sacrificing the most in this case?

I guess if US was bombing Germany from planes while Russians were fighting them on foot then yes I can see how this can happen. But, from what I know, the US didn't do either of these two things until the war was almost over.



Metal Rat
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29 Dec 2019, 9:43 am

QFT wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
You just want to argue.

The Russians sacrificed the most, by far.


Maybe you are on to something that I miss. I was assuming that people who don't say Russians contributed the most also wouldn't say they sacrificed the most yet you do. So what is the difference between contributing the most and sacrificing the most in this case?

I guess if US was bombing Germany from planes while Russians were fighting them on foot then yes I can see how this can happen. But, from what I know, the US didn't do either of these two things until the war was almost over.

Intriguing point. America entered the war merely around 1941.



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29 Dec 2019, 9:52 am

Metal Rat wrote:
QFT wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
You just want to argue.

The Russians sacrificed the most, by far.


Maybe you are on to something that I miss. I was assuming that people who don't say Russians contributed the most also wouldn't say they sacrificed the most yet you do. So what is the difference between contributing the most and sacrificing the most in this case?

I guess if US was bombing Germany from planes while Russians were fighting them on foot then yes I can see how this can happen. But, from what I know, the US didn't do either of these two things until the war was almost over.

Intriguing point. America entered the war merely around 1941.


So did Russia. But America was focused on Japan and Russia was focused on Germany. I think it was around 1944 when America became fully involved with Germany.



kraftiekortie
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29 Dec 2019, 10:00 am

We were pretty involved in Europe from late 1941.



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29 Dec 2019, 10:19 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
We were pretty involved in Europe from late 1941.


So what exactly did you do that made you contribute as much as Russia without sacrificing nearly as much?



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29 Dec 2019, 1:39 pm

QFT wrote:
Metal Rat wrote:
QFT wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
You just want to argue.

The Russians sacrificed the most, by far.


Maybe you are on to something that I miss. I was assuming that people who don't say Russians contributed the most also wouldn't say they sacrificed the most yet you do. So what is the difference between contributing the most and sacrificing the most in this case?

I guess if US was bombing Germany from planes while Russians were fighting them on foot then yes I can see how this can happen. But, from what I know, the US didn't do either of these two things until the war was almost over.

Intriguing point. America entered the war merely around 1941.


So did Russia. But America was focused on Japan and Russia was focused on Germany. I think it was around 1944 when America became fully involved with Germany.


Actually Roosevelt had promised Churchill that the emphasis of the war would be Europe first, then the Allies could turn their full attention to the Pacific.


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Metal Rat
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29 Dec 2019, 4:23 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
QFT wrote:
Metal Rat wrote:
QFT wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
You just want to argue.

The Russians sacrificed the most, by far.


Maybe you are on to something that I miss. I was assuming that people who don't say Russians contributed the most also wouldn't say they sacrificed the most yet you do. So what is the difference between contributing the most and sacrificing the most in this case?

I guess if US was bombing Germany from planes while Russians were fighting them on foot then yes I can see how this can happen. But, from what I know, the US didn't do either of these two things until the war was almost over.

Intriguing point. America entered the war merely around 1941.


So did Russia. But America was focused on Japan and Russia was focused on Germany. I think it was around 1944 when America became fully involved with Germany.


Actually Roosevelt had promised Churchill that the emphasis of the war would be Europe first, then the Allies could turn their full attention to the Pacific.

For some odd reason, I never really felt much patriotism about US Involvement in The Second World War. Most do, but I do not. After all, Roosevelt's Americans operated much more like Stalin's Russians and Hitler's Germans than most would care to remember. After all, America had its very own Prison Camps back then, and one would be shocked to know about all the war crimes the US Military carried out during "The Good War". After all, what is so very good about it? One really has to wonder.