Why does God allow bad things to happen?

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fionaban
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11 Aug 2005, 9:10 am

wot makes u say that?

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Bec
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11 Aug 2005, 6:02 pm

fionaban wrote:

wot makes u say that?

The Biblical God lets bad things--in some cases (in the Bible) actually does bad things--to people who don't deserve it. Or lets say this 'God' does those things to have people 'come to him', then he seems like a spoiled child in my opinion.

fionaban
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11 Aug 2005, 6:17 pm

k y?

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For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only son so that whoever believes in him will not die but have everlasting life." John 3:16

tokaia
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12 Aug 2005, 4:36 am

fionaban wrote:

k y?

Lack of whole words hurts my head...

(Thinks of KY jelly)

She just told you why. Weren't you listening?

I think the biblical "god" (more of a pathetic hack, really...) is a cruel, disgusting, sick, twisted, deranged, loony, horrible, f***ed up bastard. And a sicko. Can't forget that. Punishing innocent people who don't deserve it... :evil:

http://www.nobeliefs.com/DarkBible/Dark ... ntents.htm

I rest my case. :twisted:

Tom
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12 Aug 2005, 5:11 am

Aspie1 wrote:

There is no God, period. If you still think there is, let me ask you this.

Why would God let his own Temple get destroyed? Twice! First, by the Babylonians, then by the Romans. Read the following biblical summaries to prove that God doesn't exist.

Israelites worked hard to get that building, to dedicate it to God. They quarried stones of all kinds from all over Judea; they cut the cedars of Lebanon; they hauled all that material all the way to Jerusalem. Given the technology the Israelites had, you can imagine how much effort that took. The resulting First Temple looked amazingly splendid. (Refer to I Kings and II Kings for a description.) In 534 B.C., God turned around and let the Babylonians invade Israel, resulting in the complete leveling of the Temple.

Israelites grieved over the destriction. But they remained faithful in God. They quarried more stone, cut more trees, and hauled the material to Jerusalem. The rebuilt the Second Temple. It was far less splendid than the First, but it was still The Temple. Jesus taught his early followers inside it, after having cast out the vendors. In 70 A.D., the Romans invaded Israel. They leveled Jerusalem to the ground, and destroyed the Second Temple. (Refer to Jeremiah for an account of the destruction.) This temple was never rebuilt. Only one part of it remains, called the Wailing Wall.

After giving you the background, here's a mathemical proof by contradiction. My question to you is this. Why would God allow the destruction of HIS OWN TEMPLE!!? I can expect God not giving a dam* about people, but that was his own temple (or temples), for crying out loud. In a way, he would be destroying himself and the people dedicating themselves to him. And if God is as all-knowing as people think he is, he wouldn't destroy himself. This is a contradiction. Conclusion? God doesn't exist.
Q.E.D. (a mathematical abbreviation of "this is what we proved")

Well, if its a law that human beings must have free will, then I guess he had to let the Babylonians and Romans do that without intervention.

SquanderedPotential
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12 Aug 2005, 6:14 am

free will is a crock of s**t. god MADE US. how can there be free will when you've been MADE into WHO YOU ARE??? there is no escaping it. why would people choose differently if they had all been made the same? or if they had been made different, where's the fairness in that?

tokaia wrote:

fionaban wrote:

k y?

Lack of whole words hurts my head...

(Thinks of KY jelly)

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eamonn
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12 Aug 2005, 9:11 am

SquanderedPotential wrote:

free will is a crock of sh**. god MADE US. how can there be free will when you've been MADE into WHO YOU ARE??? there is no escaping it. why would people choose differently if they had all been made the same? or if they had been made different, where's the fairness in that?

tokaia wrote:

fionaban wrote:

k y?

Lack of whole words hurts my head...

(Thinks of KY jelly)

Could you please explain why God tested humans so much (particularly in the old testament) if there was no free will and he knew what we are going to do anyway? If there isnt such a thing as free will then are you are saying that god deribalately made people that would destroy his churches and kill people? Who would worship a sicko like that?

fionaban
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12 Aug 2005, 11:01 am

he has given pp free will. idk y God teasted ppl in the old testment so much.

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SquanderedPotential
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12 Aug 2005, 12:11 pm

eamonn wrote:

exactly.

i sure wouldn't worship a sicko like that. that was my point exactly. if the christian god exists, he IS a sicko.

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eamonn
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12 Aug 2005, 12:51 pm

SquanderedPotential wrote:

eamonn wrote:

exactly.

i sure wouldn't worship a sicko like that. that was my point exactly. if the christian god exists, he IS a sicko.

I must have got you mixed up with one of the religious people.

SquanderedPotential
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12 Aug 2005, 1:17 pm

whoops, i guess i tend to give that impression. i like to critize god in theory but apparently it comes out as though i believe in god theory of mind i guess... :roll:

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spacemonkey
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12 Aug 2005, 8:30 pm

Squandered

You seem to be identifying god with what the Gnostics called the Demiurge. They believed that the demiurge created the world, and did a really crappy job. In some texts he is identified with Jehovah of the old testament.

These are all poetic expressions for things that border on the inexpressible. There are answers, people just tend to get hung up on words and labels.

On this question of free will, I wonder if anyone can define exactly what it is that does or does not have it. This is something I have been thinking about lately. If I don't have free will, then my will is just a combination of instincts and drives. Would I even have a will in this case?
If I do have free will, then I must be something other than those drives. What is my relation to them then?

Aspie1
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13 Aug 2005, 1:10 am

The Bible makes the human world seem like a big ant farm to God. I think the following SAT analogy will illistrate it all. The only thing that amazes me is how all that biblical mumbo-jumbo survived for thousands of years.

Ant Farm : Person :: Human World : God

PhoenixKitten
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13 Aug 2005, 7:31 am

Ayy, Annelise is far too tired to give an in depth or intelligable answer so I will *try* to keep it brief (save me babbling about precious nothing!). The long and the short is this:

How can even the most perfect being be expected to erradicate all flaws when he is working with material that is essentially flawed and has been since before the dawn of time?

How can we as less than perfect beings possibly comment on the (im)perfections of a perfect being?

There. I shall endeavour to un-jumble that a tad when I am somewhat less exhausted!

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SquanderedPotential
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13 Aug 2005, 6:08 pm

spacemonkey wrote:

well, i'm only going by what the religious people call an omnipotent, omniscient, all good god. it's what i object to based on what i've experienced and seen in this world. and i try not to get hung up on labels and words, but it bothers me when other people do that.

spacemonkey wrote:

On this question of free will, I wonder if anyone can define exactly what it is that does or does not have it. This is something I have been thinking about lately. If I don't have free will, then my will is just a combination of instincts and drives. Would I even have a will in this case?
If I do have free will, then I must be something other than those drives. What is my relation to them then?

i don't know what your relation would be to them. if you believe in a soul i guess you can believe in a free will...and i'm not saying free will doesn't exist, i'm only saying i don't think it can exist in the christian/biblical realm.

but then...what is wrong with us being only the sum of our instincts and drives? i think that scares people silly so they invent gods to help them deal with it or deny it or even just think about it as a possibility.

PhoenixKitten wrote:

How can even the most perfect being be expected to erradicate all flaws when he is working with material that is essentially flawed and has been since before the dawn of time?

WHY is the perfect being working with imperfect material? didn't that perfect being create ALL material? why make it imperfect?

PhoenixKitten wrote:

How can we as less than perfect beings possibly comment on the (im)perfections of a perfect being?

well, how can we not? and we would be even less perfect if we didn't question the so-called perfect being. we don't have a curious mind for nothing.

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eamonn
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13 Aug 2005, 6:31 pm

PhoenixKitten wrote:

How can even the most perfect being be expected to erradicate all flaws when he is working with material that is essentially flawed and has been since before the dawn of time?

How can we as less than perfect beings possibly comment on the (im)perfections of a perfect being?

You know thats the kind of dogma that the emperors of japan and his followers used in the olden days and the leader of north korea and his followers use today to keep themselves in power and the population in tow and here and most of the world it is God that is used for the same purpose.

The people that thought up religion are smart il give them that. It is a great way to have and use power and keep people from having a free will and mind of their own. Also take into account that the power brokers of old kept jesus away from power and ended up killing him and now that he is dead it suits them to believe in him to enforce their will on the people.

A lot of things spread through word of mouth, fear and enforcement. It still goes on today. The difference being that we can look into claims and in some countries make our own minds up and argue over it. I think if David Blain was around in biblical times instead of jesus then there is a good chance christians would be worshiping him today.

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