Board index › Topical Discussion › Politics, Philosophy, and Religion

Race, culture and concepts of ethnicity

Page 4 of 5 [ 65 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

Previous topic | Next topic

Bradleigh
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 May 2008
Age: 35
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 6,669
Location: Brisbane, Australia

01 Jul 2020, 6:13 am

Pepe wrote:
See my previous post. :roll:


What is wrong with having a discussion that post WW2 Native English Australians would have been saying the same things that new migrants such as those from Europe were not integrating enough. This is a discussion of the attitudes of migrants and native born.


_________________
Through dream I travel, at lantern's call
To consume the flames of a kingdom's fall


kraftiekortie
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 87,510
Location: Queens, NYC

01 Jul 2020, 6:20 am

I like barbies myself :P



Bradleigh
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 May 2008
Age: 35
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 6,669
Location: Brisbane, Australia

01 Jul 2020, 6:24 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
I like barbies myself :P


The hot kind, or the ones with food.


(I just hope that this does not come across like I am sexualizing a children's toy rather just making a pun, and in no way meant to act as a dig at anyone's masculinity)


_________________
Through dream I travel, at lantern's call
To consume the flames of a kingdom's fall


kraftiekortie
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 87,510
Location: Queens, NYC

01 Jul 2020, 6:29 am

You’re just joking.

We have to stop seeing offense in every little thing.

I meant barbecues :)



Pepe
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Jun 2013
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 26,635
Location: Australia

01 Jul 2020, 6:35 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
I like barbies myself :P


I am a Ken doll aficionado, myself. :mrgreen:



Pepe
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Jun 2013
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 26,635
Location: Australia

01 Jul 2020, 6:36 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
You’re just joking.

We have to stop seeing offense in every little thing.

I meant barbecues :)


Good luck with that, in PPR. :lmao:



magz
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jun 2017
Age: 41
Gender: Female
Posts: 16,283
Location: Poland

01 Jul 2020, 7:09 am

Pepe wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
You’re just joking.

We have to stop seeing offense in every little thing.

I meant barbecues :)

Good luck with that, in PPR. :lmao:

It's my thread in PPR :P
So I use and abuse my queen position to say: Kraftie Is Right!


_________________
Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.

<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>


naturalplastic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Age: 71
Gender: Male
Posts: 35,189
Location: temperate zone

01 Jul 2020, 12:12 pm

About "population density": I get what the OP is saying.

In British north america you have a more thinly spread population of indigenous people, PLUS the tactic of settling the continent with whole families.

In Mexico you had the Aztec Empire with cities and a high population density (even after decimation by European diseases), and that combined with colonization mostly by all male armies instead of by families of settlers. So in Anglo America you had population replacement of the natives by the newcomers. In Mexico you a mixing of the conquerors and the conquered natives.

Argentina is a part of Latin America that was settled in a way more like that of Canada and the US. Consequently Argentinians look much like White Americans and Canadians and like Europeans. Indeed Argentinians today are described as a nation of "Italians who speak Spanish and think that they are British".



Pepe
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Jun 2013
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 26,635
Location: Australia

01 Jul 2020, 11:00 pm

magz wrote:
Pepe wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
You’re just joking.

We have to stop seeing offense in every little thing.

I meant barbecues :)

Good luck with that, in PPR. :lmao:

It's my thread in PPR :P
So I use and abuse my queen position to say: Kraftie Is Right!


As it should be.
IMO, The OP has special privileges.



funeralxempire
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 41
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 34,239
Location: Right over your left shoulder

01 Jul 2020, 11:14 pm

magz wrote:
Are you and Amerindian? I'm not a radical liberal but I'm totally willing to listen!


I'm Abenaki.

magz wrote:
In 19th century Polish literature, sufferings of Indigenous Americans were often used as a camouflaged allegory of sufferings of Poles, to trick censorship. That probably made us traditionally more sympathetic towards the First Nations, which is continuously present in our popular literature - including authors like Cejrowski, a hardcore right-winger, writing about his encounters with Amazonian tribes, sympathising with them and defending their point of view.
From what I learned reading Wikipedia, colonization of North America included several crimes against humanity and plenty of more subtle assholeness - like Canadian indigenous laws that one loses for... finishing a high school - which is practically preventing constructive synthesis of Amerindian culture and modern civilisation!


That makes sense. As much as often historic portrayals are sometimes problematic they also have probably bought us a degree of good will. The 'crying Indian' from the old PSAs wasn't actually indigenous, but he's also someone who used that position to be a respectful goodwill ambassador and genuine advocate. These questions aren't 100% black and white.

Historically the goal was often 100% assimilation with a complete abandonment of traditions and any sort of connection to them and it was pursued through a wide range of policies. Abusing kids for using their mother tongue in schools, denying status to children born of mixed marriages when the father was white, banning cultural practices, etc were all intended to slowly eradicate our identity even if our genetics didn't vanish. It's genocide even if that phrase makes some people uncomfortable because it's not the same type of genocide as the Holocaust. Most historic genocides didn't resemble the Holocaust, the technology that enabled it was new and single-mindedness towards that goal only rarely was maintained meaning most historic genocides represent waves of violence and then more passive relations.


_________________
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.


funeralxempire
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 41
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 34,239
Location: Right over your left shoulder

01 Jul 2020, 11:18 pm

Pepe wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Pepe wrote:
I use the analogy:
You invite someone in to share your house.
They then barricade the entrance to their room,
And declare it to be "Chop", or "Chaz".


Is CHOP or CHAZ majority recent immigrants, or majority people who have been US citizens for generations?


What?
I am assuming you are being argumentative.
Not interested ,
Thanks very much.

And I like discussions,
Rather than arguments/debates.
I prefer mutual growth.

What is wrong with you lefties?


I'm not being argumentative, I'm pointing out your analogy is flawed.

If the people behind CHAZ/CHOP/GINSUCHAINSAW are citizens than no one 'invited them into the home', it's their home and your analogy doesn't work well.

If you like discussions discuss instead of complaining you were engaged. :?


_________________
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.


magz
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jun 2017
Age: 41
Gender: Female
Posts: 16,283
Location: Poland

02 Jul 2020, 2:11 am

funeralxempire wrote:
Historically the goal was often 100% assimilation with a complete abandonment of traditions and any sort of connection to them and it was pursued through a wide range of policies. Abusing kids for using their mother tongue in schools, denying status to children born of mixed marriages when the father was white, banning cultural practices, etc were all intended to slowly eradicate our identity even if our genetics didn't vanish. It's genocide even if that phrase makes some people uncomfortable because it's not the same type of genocide as the Holocaust. Most historic genocides didn't resemble the Holocaust, the technology that enabled it was new and single-mindedness towards that goal only rarely was maintained meaning most historic genocides represent waves of violence and then more passive relations.

Something very similar was attempted on Poles in 19th century, both by Prussians and by Russians.
But earlier in European history, especially in Middle Ages, something I would call a cultural synthesis was the norm - like, the Vikings conquered and colonized parts of Eastern Europe, "catched" language from the local population, mixed with them, accepted Christianity from Greece - finally resulting in emergence of Ruthenian nations (Russians, Belarussians, Ukrainians).
I find such processes much healthier and I regret it didn't go that way North America. Medieval Europe was much more inclusive and I think the global civilization needs to go back to this attitude.

I would love to continue this conversation but I'm just leaving for internet-free vacations. See you in two weeks!


_________________
Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.

<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>


Kiprobalhato
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Mar 2014
Age: 29
Gender: Female
Posts: 29,119
Location: מתחת לעננים

02 Jul 2020, 2:27 am

vikings invaded the northern shores of france over 1000 years ago, those same vikings, now french-speaking, invaded anglo-saxon england and enhanced their language with thousands of french words.

et je les remercie. sans eux, la langue serait très fade.


_________________
הייתי צוללת עכשיו למים
הכי, הכי עמוקים
לא לשמוע כלום
לא לדעת כלום
וזה הכל אהובי, זה הכל.


magz
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jun 2017
Age: 41
Gender: Female
Posts: 16,283
Location: Poland

13 Jul 2020, 12:39 pm

Kiprobalhato wrote:
vikings invaded the northern shores of france over 1000 years ago, those same vikings, now french-speaking, invaded anglo-saxon england and enhanced their language with thousands of french words.

et je les remercie. sans eux, la langue serait très fade.

And the "Anglo-Saxon" England the Normans invaded had been previously inhabited by Celts, Romans, the said Anglo-Saxons, the Norse... but still the 9000 year old Cheddar Man turned out to be related to a local history teacher.
That's what European history is. Countless invasions and migrations mixing with populations staying in the location for millenia. This process is still on, I find attempts to freeze it ridiculous.


_________________
Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.

<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>


funeralxempire
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 41
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 34,239
Location: Right over your left shoulder

13 Jul 2020, 1:45 pm

magz wrote:
Kiprobalhato wrote:
vikings invaded the northern shores of france over 1000 years ago, those same vikings, now french-speaking, invaded anglo-saxon england and enhanced their language with thousands of french words.

et je les remercie. sans eux, la langue serait très fade.

And the "Anglo-Saxon" England the Normans invaded had been previously inhabited by Celts, Romans, the said Anglo-Saxons, the Norse... but still the 9000 year old Cheddar Man turned out to be related to a local history teacher.
That's what European history is. Countless invasions and migrations mixing with populations staying in the location for millenia. This process is still on, I find attempts to freeze it ridiculous.



Welcome back. :mrgreen:


_________________
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.


magz
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jun 2017
Age: 41
Gender: Female
Posts: 16,283
Location: Poland

13 Jul 2020, 2:05 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Welcome back. :mrgreen:

Nice to see you :mrgreen:


_________________
Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.

<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>