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Fnord
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13 Aug 2020, 9:52 am

Fireblossom wrote:
The problem is that the whackos (radicals) tend to be the loudest, so they end up giving their groups a bad name even if they're in the minority.  This doesn't apply only to feminists but also to religious people, vegans, LBGT supporters...
... white supremacists, misogynists, Trumpsters, anti-vaxxers, curebies, ...


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dorkseid
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13 Aug 2020, 10:20 am

I was going to respond to a certain post that's been deleted.

I just want to say that I don't agree with anything that user (forgot his name) said. I'm just pointing this out before anyone associates his post with my position.



kraftiekortie
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13 Aug 2020, 10:46 am

What is your favorite thing to do or study, Dorkseid?

In my 20s, I tended to get stuck on theory which was inapplicable to my actual daily life.



cyberdad
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13 Aug 2020, 9:23 pm

dorkseid wrote:
cyberdad wrote:

Sticking to the thread I suspect the old fashioned values you yearn for where women had a set role in society as caregivers and supporters of their husband are long gone.


And just when the hell did I say I yearn for any of that? Stop putting word in my mouth!

You're strawmaning me. That's what people like you do!


I was coming to the logical conclusion from your stance but it seems like you have made up your mind



Pepe
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13 Aug 2020, 11:41 pm

dorkseid wrote:

I don't owe anyone an apology for being male, straight, cis, or white. And anybody that has a problem with that can screw off.


I feel the same.
To think otherwise is irrational.

The problem is that some people embrace the concept of "collective guilt", which is logical nonsense.

According to Christianity, we all have original sin because of something that Adam and Eve did.
Apparently, all Jews are responsible for the death of Christ.
And in the same vien, all Germans are responsible for the Holocaust.

It never ceases to amaze me how so many people can be so irrational in their beliefs. 8)

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The sin of Adam
In traditional Christian teaching, original sin is the result of Adam and Eve's disobedience to God when they ate a forbidden fruit in the Garden of Eden. https://www.google.com/search?client=fi ... CAs&uact=5



Pepe
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13 Aug 2020, 11:49 pm

cyberdad wrote:
dorkseid wrote:
cyberdad wrote:

Sticking to the thread I suspect the old fashioned values you yearn for where women had a set role in society as caregivers and supporters of their husband are long gone.


And just when the hell did I say I yearn for any of that? Stop putting word in my mouth!

You're strawmaning me. That's what people like you do!


I was coming to the logical conclusion from your stance but it seems like you have made up your mind


Image

It happens to all of us, from time to time. :mrgreen:



dorkseid
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14 Aug 2020, 8:17 am

cyberdad wrote:
dorkseid wrote:
cyberdad wrote:

Sticking to the thread I suspect the old fashioned values you yearn for where women had a set role in society as caregivers and supporters of their husband are long gone.


And just when the hell did I say I yearn for any of that? Stop putting word in my mouth!

You're strawmaning me. That's what people like you do!


I was coming to the logical conclusion from your stance but it seems like you have made up your mind


I have made it clear from the start that what I take issue with is the constant man bashing and pushing of collective guilt ideology, not women's suffrage.

All you are doing is reiterating the same tired strawman. There is nothing logical about your conclusion.



dorkseid
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14 Aug 2020, 8:20 am

Pepe wrote:
dorkseid wrote:

I don't owe anyone an apology for being male, straight, cis, or white. And anybody that has a problem with that can screw off.


I feel the same.
To think otherwise is irrational.

The problem is that some people embrace the concept of "collective guilt", which is logical nonsense.

According to Christianity, we all have original sin because of something that Adam and Eve did.
Apparently, all Jews are responsible for the death of Christ.
And in the same vien, all Germans are responsible for the Holocaust.

It never ceases to amaze me how so many people can be so irrational in their beliefs. 8)

Quote:
The sin of Adam
In traditional Christian teaching, original sin is the result of Adam and Eve's disobedience to God when they ate a forbidden fruit in the Garden of Eden. https://www.google.com/search?client=fi ... CAs&uact=5


That is one of the many reasons why Christianity is idiotic.

And I love how the Jews are so hated for killing Jesus, while at the same time his death was part of God's plan and is would be no salvation without it.



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14 Aug 2020, 8:21 am

^
^ Wouldn't "I have issues with man-bashing" been a better title, then? Not all feminists do it, and not everyone who does it is a feminist. The current title makes it sound like this is about something else entirely.



Fnord
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14 Aug 2020, 8:44 am

Fireblossom wrote:
Wouldn't "I have issues with man-bashing" been a better title, then? ...
I am inclined to agree.

My brief experience of being an active participant in the feminist movement was dealing with people -- both men and women -- who could go on at length about "The Evil That Is Men".

The women seemed to have grudges against specific men in their pasts, while the men were simply looking to get laid.


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14 Aug 2020, 11:28 am

Whatever you do, not not look at Female Dating Strategy. :lol:

I got myself kicked from that sub for posting in pussypassdenied because how dare we want women to be held to the same standard as men and I had never even posted in FDS but that is Reddit for ya.


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14 Aug 2020, 11:35 am

I support feminism and equality. In fact I really admire strong women whether fictional or historical. but I dislike man-bashers who blame men for all the evil in this world. Just like I dislike SJWs who do the same to white people. White men are still human.


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14 Aug 2020, 12:02 pm

DeathEmperor413 wrote:
I support feminism and equality. In fact I really admire strong women whether fictional or historical. but I dislike man-bashers who blame men for all the evil in this world. Just like I dislike SJWs who do the same to white people. White men are still human.


I have noticed the double standard in that it's socially acceptable to bash men and it's unacceptable for men to bash women. We call them misogynists but I have never seen anyone call a woman a misandry.

If a man is a afraid of women, he is called a misogynist but if a woman fears men, no one would shame her calling her a misandry.

I can understand why this double standard exists though.


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DeathEmperor413
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14 Aug 2020, 12:11 pm

League_Girl wrote:
DeathEmperor413 wrote:
I support feminism and equality. In fact I really admire strong women whether fictional or historical. but I dislike man-bashers who blame men for all the evil in this world. Just like I dislike SJWs who do the same to white people. White men are still human.


I have noticed the double standard in that it's socially acceptable to bash men and it's unacceptable for men to bash women. We call them misogynists but I have never seen anyone call a woman a misandry.

If a man is a afraid of women, he is called a misogynist but if a woman fears men, no one would shame her calling her a misandry.

I can understand why this double standard exists though.



I would compare the same double standads to how it seems acceptable for people of color to hate or fear white people but it can never be the other way around because that appears to be even more taboo to acknowledge.


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14 Aug 2020, 9:50 pm

dorkseid wrote:
I have made it clear from the start that what I take issue with is the constant man bashing and pushing of collective guilt ideology, not women's suffrage.

All you are doing is reiterating the same tired strawman. There is nothing logical about your conclusion.


I am trying to work out your exact point, you have made that clearer now.

So collective guilt is an "ideology" that doesn't require critical thought but rather make all members of a particular group (let's say cis-hetero-white males) guilty of being a member of a "privilege group" despite members of the aforementioned group not necessarily a) holding any bias against women/gays/dark people? and b) not ever having conducted themselves in a manner where they invoked their membership of said group to take advantage of those not members?

I think that about summarises what I think you are trying to say



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14 Aug 2020, 10:05 pm

dorkseid wrote:
Pepe wrote:
dorkseid wrote:

I don't owe anyone an apology for being male, straight, cis, or white. And anybody that has a problem with that can screw off.


I feel the same.
To think otherwise is irrational.

The problem is that some people embrace the concept of "collective guilt", which is logical nonsense.

According to Christianity, we all have original sin because of something that Adam and Eve did.
Apparently, all Jews are responsible for the death of Christ.
And in the same vien, all Germans are responsible for the Holocaust.

It never ceases to amaze me how so many people can be so irrational in their beliefs. 8)

Quote:
The sin of Adam
In traditional Christian teaching, original sin is the result of Adam and Eve's disobedience to God when they ate a forbidden fruit in the Garden of Eden. https://www.google.com/search?client=fi ... CAs&uact=5


That is one of the many reasons why Christianity is idiotic.

And I love how the Jews are so hated for killing Jesus, while at the same time his death was part of God's plan and is would be no salvation without it.


Hated?

I've listened to Christian lectures regularly on Christian radio station so from that it seems like reverence or deference not hatred.

They even have rabbis come on regularly for Q&As and advice - who frame things as per Torah (reference) - for the Christian listeners. Meaning it is deference and respect. I've listened to this over a long period of time so I can say I never heard anything conveying hatred.

They also don't frame any faults in stories as Jews per se but 'all of mankind' having negative tendencies in general, about which I wholeheartedly agree. I don't know the exact story as per Christianity, but I didn't see hatred anyway.

But to be sure I'm not an expert, and this is a digression from the topic too.


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