DNA from the Bible's Canaanites lives on in Arabs and Jews

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naturalplastic
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06 Jan 2021, 3:38 am

Among Ashkenazi - Y DNA points to the Levant, but mitochondrial points to "southern Europe" ( even among those of the group who live in Russia).

That according to Wiki.
.



ezbzbfcg2
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06 Jan 2021, 3:54 am

funeralxempire wrote:
I wonder if it depends on if the evaluation is based on Y vs. mitochondrial vs. other DNA.

Also, I'm impressed that mitochondrial was both in my browser's dictionary and that I spelled it correctly. 8)


Presumably autosomal. Though it's important to note that if the mother is an Ashekenazi Jewess, the child must be at least part Jewish. Since there's no denying whom the mother is, that was the litmus test for traditionally recognizing the child as Jewish (in an age before modern DNA paternity testing).



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06 Jan 2021, 3:56 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Google Tunisian models.


Ok I see...are they French though?



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06 Jan 2021, 4:03 am

naturalplastic wrote:
Are you on drugs? Did you look at that picture and hallucinate that she looked like Lindsay Lohan?
Like most Arabs and Jews (though not necessarily Berbers) of North Africa she DOES look "Middle Eastern".
And even if she did look north european (or anything non middle eastern), which she doesnt, she is just one specimen, and wouldnt prove anything.

American, and Israeli Jews of the Ashkenazi sect often DO have coloration similar to that of Lindsay Lohan (Like Kathy Griffith). So they do have north european DNA. But like Kathy Griffith they retain a very different facial bone structure from their Gentile neighbors, that is similar to Middle Eastern folks.


There is a well known bias among Israelis of European origin against non-European Jews so they (ironically) carry the same biases.
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10 ... 4218810749

I am merely pointing out they inherited the same phenotypic biases that Whiteys hold.



AngelRho
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06 Jan 2021, 11:17 am

funeralxempire wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
On a slightly related tangent...I’ve always wondered if there was any truth to Christian Identity (the white supremacist idea that European Christians are genetically descended from Northern Israel and thus have a superior claim on Israel than the Jews). I don’t mean the white supremacist part, I mean whether the nations of Europe had origins in ancient Israel, perhaps as descendants of disinherited Hebrew slaves. Typically we think, oh, they’re racists, they can’t possibly be right. But it would be interesting to see whether Jews in the diaspora hadn’t been mixing it up with their brothers and sisters all along and never knew it.


Is there any objective evidence in favour of it whatsoever?

Supposedly a few Europeans share DNA with Semitic people and possibly even the Jews, indicating that Israelites intermixed with their captors and their descendants spread northward mixing with Europeans. I believe it’s a plausible hypothesis, though I don’t share the idea that it means what Christian Identity adherents think it means.


So no, you're not aware of any objective evidence supporting this notion. If DNA supported the notion studies would likely exist documenting this fact.

The ideas that this notion are based in are the result of ignorant and recently converted European Christians hoping to tie themselves to the history of the Levant because their own wasn't recorded. Those ideas were resurrected by white supremacists in the 1800s looking for religious justification for their notions that they were inherently YHWH's chosen because colonialism (the successes these peoples had conquering others was considered as evidence that God was on their side).

No evidence can be presented to support these positions (British Israelism, Frankish Israelism, Nordic Israelism, etc) because none exists because they're just bible fan-fiction invented to justify terrible actions.

If you look at my post, the first thing I said was “supposedly.” I have no skin in that game because, first, my theology doesn’t require me to believe I have to have some genetic link to ancient Israel, and second, I’m not a racist. I mean, look...if you go by Biblical evidence, the fact that the northern tribes were disinherited does not bode well for the CI argument that they are superior or have some claim to the Holy Land. It certainly doesn’t work to support any anti-Semitic view. So, no, I’m not interested in wasting time I don’t have researching it.

What does fascinate me, and what I’d like to know and may eventually look into is whether the Israelites really did spread throughout Europe at some point before the Babylonian captivity. The Israelites, I think, were assimilated into the Assyrian nation. I’m not aware of anything that is known beyond that. Why would it not be plausible that their descendants might have traveled as far as Germany or even Britain? And what if there happened to be objective evidence to that effect?

Bias works both ways, by the way. Just because you WANT white supremacists to be wrong about the one thing they might actually be right about doesn’t mean that they are. Many horrible things have been rationalized based on truths that would otherwise seem inconsequential. The atomic bombs dropped on Japan may actually have saved lives by quickly ending the Pacific war (truth). I sincerely doubt that residents of Hiroshima at that time were very appreciative. Just because I’m not aware of any objective evidence doesn’t mean there’s not any, nor would existence of said evidence compel you to change your mind about it.



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06 Jan 2021, 3:27 pm

AngelRho wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
On a slightly related tangent...I’ve always wondered if there was any truth to Christian Identity (the white supremacist idea that European Christians are genetically descended from Northern Israel and thus have a superior claim on Israel than the Jews). I don’t mean the white supremacist part, I mean whether the nations of Europe had origins in ancient Israel, perhaps as descendants of disinherited Hebrew slaves. Typically we think, oh, they’re racists, they can’t possibly be right. But it would be interesting to see whether Jews in the diaspora hadn’t been mixing it up with their brothers and sisters all along and never knew it.


Is there any objective evidence in favour of it whatsoever?

Supposedly a few Europeans share DNA with Semitic people and possibly even the Jews, indicating that Israelites intermixed with their captors and their descendants spread northward mixing with Europeans. I believe it’s a plausible hypothesis, though I don’t share the idea that it means what Christian Identity adherents think it means.


So no, you're not aware of any objective evidence supporting this notion. If DNA supported the notion studies would likely exist documenting this fact.

The ideas that this notion are based in are the result of ignorant and recently converted European Christians hoping to tie themselves to the history of the Levant because their own wasn't recorded. Those ideas were resurrected by white supremacists in the 1800s looking for religious justification for their notions that they were inherently YHWH's chosen because colonialism (the successes these peoples had conquering others was considered as evidence that God was on their side).

No evidence can be presented to support these positions (British Israelism, Frankish Israelism, Nordic Israelism, etc) because none exists because they're just bible fan-fiction invented to justify terrible actions.

If you look at my post, the first thing I said was “supposedly.” I have no skin in that game because, first, my theology doesn’t require me to believe I have to have some genetic link to ancient Israel, and second, I’m not a racist. I mean, look...if you go by Biblical evidence, the fact that the northern tribes were disinherited does not bode well for the CI argument that they are superior or have some claim to the Holy Land. It certainly doesn’t work to support any anti-Semitic view. So, no, I’m not interested in wasting time I don’t have researching it.

What does fascinate me, and what I’d like to know and may eventually look into is whether the Israelites really did spread throughout Europe at some point before the Babylonian captivity. The Israelites, I think, were assimilated into the Assyrian nation. I’m not aware of anything that is known beyond that. Why would it not be plausible that their descendants might have traveled as far as Germany or even Britain? And what if there happened to be objective evidence to that effect?

Bias works both ways, by the way. Just because you WANT white supremacists to be wrong about the one thing they might actually be right about doesn’t mean that they are. Many horrible things have been rationalized based on truths that would otherwise seem inconsequential. The atomic bombs dropped on Japan may actually have saved lives by quickly ending the Pacific war (truth). I sincerely doubt that residents of Hiroshima at that time were very appreciative. Just because I’m not aware of any objective evidence doesn’t mean there’s not any, nor would existence of said evidence compel you to change your mind about it.


There is a little green man who follows you around everywhere you go. He just disappears every time you turn to look at him.

You cant prove me wrong! Just because there is no evidence for him doesnt mean that he isnt there! But I have no skin in the game of arguing for it because its not my theory. I got it from a bunch of racist skinheads.

But just because I have no skin in the game, it doesnt mean that I cant ACT like I have skin in the game, and get pissed off at you when you question the existence of this little green man! And...I accuse you of doubting his existence because of your partisan bias! You wouldnt believe in my LGM even if I could produce evidence for him! And....something about the atomic bomb being dropped on Hiroshima!

===
Dude...what are you talking about?

You repeatedly contradict yourself (does this notion matter to you, or not?).

It sounds like you DO "want" this notion to be true. White Europeans to be all descended from ancient Israelites. And that you want Christianity to be one and the same as the White race.Turning Christianity from belief into a race is about as unchristian as you can get IMHO.



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06 Jan 2021, 5:45 pm

AngelRho wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
On a slightly related tangent...I’ve always wondered if there was any truth to Christian Identity (the white supremacist idea that European Christians are genetically descended from Northern Israel and thus have a superior claim on Israel than the Jews). I don’t mean the white supremacist part, I mean whether the nations of Europe had origins in ancient Israel, perhaps as descendants of disinherited Hebrew slaves. Typically we think, oh, they’re racists, they can’t possibly be right. But it would be interesting to see whether Jews in the diaspora hadn’t been mixing it up with their brothers and sisters all along and never knew it.


Is there any objective evidence in favour of it whatsoever?

Supposedly a few Europeans share DNA with Semitic people and possibly even the Jews, indicating that Israelites intermixed with their captors and their descendants spread northward mixing with Europeans. I believe it’s a plausible hypothesis, though I don’t share the idea that it means what Christian Identity adherents think it means.


So no, you're not aware of any objective evidence supporting this notion. If DNA supported the notion studies would likely exist documenting this fact.

The ideas that this notion are based in are the result of ignorant and recently converted European Christians hoping to tie themselves to the history of the Levant because their own wasn't recorded. Those ideas were resurrected by white supremacists in the 1800s looking for religious justification for their notions that they were inherently YHWH's chosen because colonialism (the successes these peoples had conquering others was considered as evidence that God was on their side).

No evidence can be presented to support these positions (British Israelism, Frankish Israelism, Nordic Israelism, etc) because none exists because they're just bible fan-fiction invented to justify terrible actions.

If you look at my post, the first thing I said was “supposedly.” I have no skin in that game because, first, my theology doesn’t require me to believe I have to have some genetic link to ancient Israel, and second, I’m not a racist. I mean, look...if you go by Biblical evidence, the fact that the northern tribes were disinherited does not bode well for the CI argument that they are superior or have some claim to the Holy Land. It certainly doesn’t work to support any anti-Semitic view. So, no, I’m not interested in wasting time I don’t have researching it.

What does fascinate me, and what I’d like to know and may eventually look into is whether the Israelites really did spread throughout Europe at some point before the Babylonian captivity. The Israelites, I think, were assimilated into the Assyrian nation. I’m not aware of anything that is known beyond that. Why would it not be plausible that their descendants might have traveled as far as Germany or even Britain? And what if there happened to be objective evidence to that effect?

Bias works both ways, by the way. Just because you WANT white supremacists to be wrong about the one thing they might actually be right about doesn’t mean that they are. Many horrible things have been rationalized based on truths that would otherwise seem inconsequential. The atomic bombs dropped on Japan may actually have saved lives by quickly ending the Pacific war (truth). I sincerely doubt that residents of Hiroshima at that time were very appreciative. Just because I’m not aware of any objective evidence doesn’t mean there’s not any, nor would existence of said evidence compel you to change your mind about it.


It's got nothing to do with what I'd prefer. If there was any evidence I'd be happy to consider it but since there isn't it's about as credible as lizard people dwelling inside the earth.

If there's objective evidence supporting the idea it's worth considering. If there isn't it really isn't. Please provide some if you're aware of some, if not please stop acting like my skepticism of the unsubstantiated claim is unreasonable.


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06 Jan 2021, 6:41 pm

AngelRho wrote:
What does fascinate me, and what I’d like to know and may eventually look into is whether the Israelites really did spread throughout Europe at some point before the Babylonian captivity. The Israelites, I think, were assimilated into the Assyrian nation. I’m not aware of anything that is known beyond that. Why would it not be plausible that their descendants might have traveled as far as Germany or even Britain? And what if there happened to be objective evidence to that effect?


Very unlikely there was ever substantial populations of jews in Europe in ancient times. Individual Jewish traders may have travelled via Roman ports and traded with Celtic Britain or Gaul and they might have established trading communities but we are talking AD not BC.

Prior to the Romans the tribal Europeans would have not taken kindly to outsiders and likely sacrificed them in a wicker man or stewed them in a pot.



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06 Jan 2021, 7:26 pm

The notion of "the Christian Identity Movement" is not only racist and Anti-Semitic, but is also entirely fictitious. There is zero evidence of Israelites spreading into northern Europe to become the forebears of Anglo-Saxon, Teutonic, Nordic, and Celtic peoples. And on the contrary, there is a wealth of evidence that proves that such a notion is impossible.
Now, is it at all possible that modern day Christians have some sort of genetic connection to ancient Israel? Of course there is - the first Christians, having been ethnic Judeans, had been deported to the farthest reaches of the Roman Empire in the 1st century A.D, along with those who practiced Judaism. Those Judean Christians ended up becoming absorbed into the Gentile Christian communities. But to say that the white race are the "Chosen People," which the white nationalists believe, is total BS. And in fact, as the Apostle Paul had maintained, there is no distinction between Jews and Gentiles in Christ, so what does any such claim matter to real believers?


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07 Jan 2021, 6:28 am

Christianity was never an ethno-religious group.

It is too large and spread too fast to be one! Come on. Even the Vikings became Christians.



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07 Jan 2021, 6:46 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Christianity was never an ethno-religious group.


Alas this was never true
https://news.stanford.edu/2020/01/31/co ... white-man/



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07 Jan 2021, 8:04 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Christianity was never an ethno-religious group.

It is too large and spread too fast to be one! Come on. Even the Vikings became Christians.


Of course, but I was specifically meaning Christians of European and Middle Eastern stock.


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07 Jan 2021, 8:35 pm

Let's face it. European christendom was ethno-religious for about 500 years following the renaissance. It wasn't just the mormons, everyone believed heaven was only mean't for white catholic or white protestant people.



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08 Jan 2021, 12:14 am

cyberdad wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Christianity was never an ethno-religious group.


Alas this was never true
https://news.stanford.edu/2020/01/31/co ... white-man/


This only shows how people imagine God looks like; it has nothing to do with what I said.



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08 Jan 2021, 12:16 am

cyberdad wrote:
Let's face it. European christendom was ethno-religious for about 500 years following the renaissance. It wasn't just the mormons, everyone believed heaven was only mean't for white catholic or white protestant people.



That only if you consider all whites/caucasians as same ethnicity.



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08 Jan 2021, 1:11 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Let's face it. European christendom was ethno-religious for about 500 years following the renaissance. It wasn't just the mormons, everyone believed heaven was only mean't for white catholic or white protestant people.



That only if you consider all whites/caucasians as same ethnicity.


And....While I'm at it the Arabs also imagine that the all powerful god in heaven is male and speaks Arabic :roll:

Ethnocentrism also infects religious bigotry.