American "leftism" a threat to France...
10 Feb 2021, 10:54 pm
Brictoria wrote:
Jiheisho wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
Cancel culture, on the other hand, goes beyond telling a person (or group) that their idea is outmoded, and instead works to prevent not only the discussion of the idea, but the ostracising of the person who spoke about it from society through concerted efforts to have them fired from jobs, for example (which were unrelated to the "idea", or the forum in which it was discussed), and working to prevent other members of society from interacting with them...Taking the target of the "attack" from being the "idea" and instead directing it towards the "person".
You mean like McCarthyism and the black list in the US? Or like death threats toward progressive members of Congress? I think you might find your idea of "cancel culture" is nothing new. Nor does it belong on any part of the political spectrum. You could say boycotting is "cancel culture." Of course, the term "cancel culture" is just a political cudgel used to do exactly what is professes to counter.
So how do you think the political right should act to stop their use use of techniques to "cancel" their opponents? Do you think it is acceptable for the political right to simply to simply refuse to compromise and delegitimize their opponents in order to "cancel" their position. This is the huge shift that has been happening in US politics. Do you think conservatives should be more open to discussion?
Instead of some mythical "political right should act to stop their use use of techniques to "cancel" their opponents", it would certainly help if you provided actual examples of where you believe this "cancelling" occurred (as it's appears to be such a big issue for you, based upon your focus upon it, let's start with 5 examples please)...It's easy to make vague assertions such as that, but without actual examples, they do noting to contribute to a discussion on the subject, instead simply casting (apparently baseless) aspersions on the targeted group.
McCarthyism
Dixie Chicks
Tea Party
Kathy Griffin
Josh Hawley's attack on Nike
Mitch McConnell obstructionism during the Obama administration
Attacks on the 1619 Project and the 1776 project
Attacks on BLM
Attacks on the witnesses for the 1st Trump impeachment and the loss of a career for the Vindman brothers
Attacks on the Muller investigation
Attacks on election officials and results including an insurrection
Attacks on health officials during COVID
Is that enough?
10 Feb 2021, 11:10 pm
Jiheisho wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
Jiheisho wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
Cancel culture, on the other hand, goes beyond telling a person (or group) that their idea is outmoded, and instead works to prevent not only the discussion of the idea, but the ostracising of the person who spoke about it from society through concerted efforts to have them fired from jobs, for example (which were unrelated to the "idea", or the forum in which it was discussed), and working to prevent other members of society from interacting with them...Taking the target of the "attack" from being the "idea" and instead directing it towards the "person".
You mean like McCarthyism and the black list in the US? Or like death threats toward progressive members of Congress? I think you might find your idea of "cancel culture" is nothing new. Nor does it belong on any part of the political spectrum. You could say boycotting is "cancel culture." Of course, the term "cancel culture" is just a political cudgel used to do exactly what is professes to counter.
So how do you think the political right should act to stop their use use of techniques to "cancel" their opponents? Do you think it is acceptable for the political right to simply to simply refuse to compromise and delegitimize their opponents in order to "cancel" their position. This is the huge shift that has been happening in US politics. Do you think conservatives should be more open to discussion?
Instead of some mythical "political right should act to stop their use use of techniques to "cancel" their opponents", it would certainly help if you provided actual examples of where you believe this "cancelling" occurred (as it's appears to be such a big issue for you, based upon your focus upon it, let's start with 5 examples please)...It's easy to make vague assertions such as that, but without actual examples, they do noting to contribute to a discussion on the subject, instead simply casting (apparently baseless) aspersions on the targeted group.
McCarthyism
Dixie Chicks
Tea Party
Kathy Griffin
Josh Hawley's attack on Nike
Mitch McConnell obstructionism during the Obama administration
Attacks on the 1619 Project and the 1776 project
Attacks on BLM
Attacks on the witnesses for the 1st Trump impeachment and the loss of a career for the Vindman brothers
Attacks on the Muller investigation
Attacks on election officials and results including an insurrection
Attacks on health officials during COVID
Is that enough?
https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/2021/01/06/amid-chaos-dc-trump-supporters-gather-iowa-capitol/6568832002/
Quote:
Dara Makohoniuk-Martin, 50, of Clive, told the Des Moines Register she attended the event to be surrounded by like-minded people and to "support the movement of revealing what's happening with this whole voting thing, with the stealing of the election, the fraudulent things that are obvious."
"What's happening is way greater than President Trump himself. This is about right and wrong, and that's why we are here," Martin said, adding that she is concerned about Democrats taking control of Congress.
"Our country is starting to turn extremely liberal, and that's not what our country was founded on. If we read the Constitution, if we're true constitutionalists, we will realize that this country was founded on Judeo-Christian values," she said, adding, "If you're going to be in our country, you're going to have to live by the Christian values. Period."
"What's happening is way greater than President Trump himself. This is about right and wrong, and that's why we are here," Martin said, adding that she is concerned about Democrats taking control of Congress.
"Our country is starting to turn extremely liberal, and that's not what our country was founded on. If we read the Constitution, if we're true constitutionalists, we will realize that this country was founded on Judeo-Christian values," she said, adding, "If you're going to be in our country, you're going to have to live by the Christian values. Period."
This Trump supporting lady also wants to cancel everyone not Christian.
10 Feb 2021, 11:12 pm
Feyokien wrote:
Jiheisho wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
Jiheisho wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
Cancel culture, on the other hand, goes beyond telling a person (or group) that their idea is outmoded, and instead works to prevent not only the discussion of the idea, but the ostracising of the person who spoke about it from society through concerted efforts to have them fired from jobs, for example (which were unrelated to the "idea", or the forum in which it was discussed), and working to prevent other members of society from interacting with them...Taking the target of the "attack" from being the "idea" and instead directing it towards the "person".
You mean like McCarthyism and the black list in the US? Or like death threats toward progressive members of Congress? I think you might find your idea of "cancel culture" is nothing new. Nor does it belong on any part of the political spectrum. You could say boycotting is "cancel culture." Of course, the term "cancel culture" is just a political cudgel used to do exactly what is professes to counter.
So how do you think the political right should act to stop their use use of techniques to "cancel" their opponents? Do you think it is acceptable for the political right to simply to simply refuse to compromise and delegitimize their opponents in order to "cancel" their position. This is the huge shift that has been happening in US politics. Do you think conservatives should be more open to discussion?
Instead of some mythical "political right should act to stop their use use of techniques to "cancel" their opponents", it would certainly help if you provided actual examples of where you believe this "cancelling" occurred (as it's appears to be such a big issue for you, based upon your focus upon it, let's start with 5 examples please)...It's easy to make vague assertions such as that, but without actual examples, they do noting to contribute to a discussion on the subject, instead simply casting (apparently baseless) aspersions on the targeted group.
McCarthyism
Dixie Chicks
Tea Party
Kathy Griffin
Josh Hawley's attack on Nike
Mitch McConnell obstructionism during the Obama administration
Attacks on the 1619 Project and the 1776 project
Attacks on BLM
Attacks on the witnesses for the 1st Trump impeachment and the loss of a career for the Vindman brothers
Attacks on the Muller investigation
Attacks on election officials and results including an insurrection
Attacks on health officials during COVID
Is that enough?
https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/2021/01/06/amid-chaos-dc-trump-supporters-gather-iowa-capitol/6568832002/
Quote:
Dara Makohoniuk-Martin, 50, of Clive, told the Des Moines Register she attended the event to be surrounded by like-minded people and to "support the movement of revealing what's happening with this whole voting thing, with the stealing of the election, the fraudulent things that are obvious."
"What's happening is way greater than President Trump himself. This is about right and wrong, and that's why we are here," Martin said, adding that she is concerned about Democrats taking control of Congress.
"Our country is starting to turn extremely liberal, and that's not what our country was founded on. If we read the Constitution, if we're true constitutionalists, we will realize that this country was founded on Judeo-Christian values," she said, adding, "If you're going to be in our country, you're going to have to live by the Christian values. Period."
"What's happening is way greater than President Trump himself. This is about right and wrong, and that's why we are here," Martin said, adding that she is concerned about Democrats taking control of Congress.
"Our country is starting to turn extremely liberal, and that's not what our country was founded on. If we read the Constitution, if we're true constitutionalists, we will realize that this country was founded on Judeo-Christian values," she said, adding, "If you're going to be in our country, you're going to have to live by the Christian values. Period."
This Trump supporting lady also wants to cancel everyone not Christian.
We can also include Republicans canceling of Liz Chaney.
But perhaps Brictoria does not know that much about US politics, but the conservative cancel culture and cancel wars in general have been going to for a really long time.
10 Feb 2021, 11:18 pm
Jiheisho wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
Jiheisho wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
Cancel culture, on the other hand, goes beyond telling a person (or group) that their idea is outmoded, and instead works to prevent not only the discussion of the idea, but the ostracising of the person who spoke about it from society through concerted efforts to have them fired from jobs, for example (which were unrelated to the "idea", or the forum in which it was discussed), and working to prevent other members of society from interacting with them...Taking the target of the "attack" from being the "idea" and instead directing it towards the "person".
You mean like McCarthyism and the black list in the US? Or like death threats toward progressive members of Congress? I think you might find your idea of "cancel culture" is nothing new. Nor does it belong on any part of the political spectrum. You could say boycotting is "cancel culture." Of course, the term "cancel culture" is just a political cudgel used to do exactly what is professes to counter.
So how do you think the political right should act to stop their use use of techniques to "cancel" their opponents? Do you think it is acceptable for the political right to simply to simply refuse to compromise and delegitimize their opponents in order to "cancel" their position. This is the huge shift that has been happening in US politics. Do you think conservatives should be more open to discussion?
Instead of some mythical "political right should act to stop their use use of techniques to "cancel" their opponents", it would certainly help if you provided actual examples of where you believe this "cancelling" occurred (as it's appears to be such a big issue for you, based upon your focus upon it, let's start with 5 examples please)...It's easy to make vague assertions such as that, but without actual examples, they do noting to contribute to a discussion on the subject, instead simply casting (apparently baseless) aspersions on the targeted group.
McCarthyism
Dixie Chicks
Tea Party
Kathy Griffin
Josh Hawley's attack on Nike
Mitch McConnell obstructionism during the Obama administration
Attacks on the 1619 Project and the 1776 project
Attacks on BLM
Attacks on the witnesses for the 1st Trump impeachment and the loss of a career for the Vindman brothers
Attacks on the Muller investigation
Attacks on election officials
Attacks on health officials during COVID
Is that enough?
I asked for examples of "cancelling" by the right, not simply the "right" vocally disagreeing with\criticising them - You seem confused on this subject.
Was, for example, Mr Mueller (or the "election officials", or "health officials", or BLM) "fired" as a result of their legal words\actions\opinions outside of their employment (or from years prior to their employment) that had no bearing on their occupations?
How many of these examples resulted in the person\group that you claim was "cancelled" being fired and efforts by the "right" made to prevent their future employment, for legal words\actions\opinions unrelated to their work?
10 Feb 2021, 11:27 pm
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/07/politics ... index.html
There was a whole list here of the ex's attempts to cancel people, but can't read the source material now. I'll see if I can track down screenshots.
10 Feb 2021, 11:29 pm
Brictoria wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
I don't believe in at least some of the "political correctness."
But the French statement, to me, goes overboard. It sounds like something a Trump supporter would say.
But the French statement, to me, goes overboard. It sounds like something a Trump supporter would say.
The French are very protective of their culture, even having an institute responsible for maintaining their language (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acad%C3%A9mie_fran%C3%A7aise), rather than (as in English) allowing a form of "free-for-all" where words are added or have their meaning redefined in a haphazard way.
To declare that such a culture - wishing to retain its identity, rather than succumb to another - as being "like something a Trump supporter would say" gives the impression that there is a belief in the "cultural superiority" of a given culture over others, and that those who do not agree with having their culture overrun by this "superior" culture are automatically to be defined according to the definitions of this "superior" culture, rather than in terms of their own, as well as showing a lack of respect for the members of this other culture who wish to maintain it...
As an aside, the indigenous people of Australia are determined to maintain their cultural language also.
I doubt most are Trump voters. [This is an ironic statement because most probably do not have voting rights in America.]
Brictoria wrote:
Would the same attitude apply to a traditional culture (for example, in Africa), which wished to retain its own identity, rather than have another foisted upon it? Or is this desire to retain an existing culture to be supported in only certain cases, and "deplored" in others (and if so, what are the defining features of a culture which should be protected over one that shouldn't)?
Even the UN (under UNESCO) recognises a right for each country to maintain their individual culture as they see fit:
Source: Article 9 of "UNESCO Universal Declaration on Cultural Diversity, adopted by the 31st session of the General Conference of UNESCO, Paris, 2 November 2001" https://unesdoc.unesco.org/ark:/48223/pf0000127160
To expect the French to change their culture to suit the desires of another (outside) culture actually gives the appearance of the French being the target of "colonisation" by this other culture, and that they are trying to resist this...
Even the UN (under UNESCO) recognises a right for each country to maintain their individual culture as they see fit:
Quote:
It is for each State, with due regard to its international obligations, to define its cultural policy and to implement it through the means it considers fit, whether by operational support or appropriate regulations.
Source: Article 9 of "UNESCO Universal Declaration on Cultural Diversity, adopted by the 31st session of the General Conference of UNESCO, Paris, 2 November 2001" https://unesdoc.unesco.org/ark:/48223/pf0000127160
kraftiekortie wrote:
Like I said, we are past colonialism. I wish the French would be past colonialism, too.
To expect the French to change their culture to suit the desires of another (outside) culture actually gives the appearance of the French being the target of "colonisation" by this other culture, and that they are trying to resist this...
"Cultural Colonialism" by the Amerikans, as has happened here in Australia.
"Have a nice day."
10 Feb 2021, 11:41 pm
Brictoria wrote:
Jiheisho wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
Jiheisho wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
Cancel culture, on the other hand, goes beyond telling a person (or group) that their idea is outmoded, and instead works to prevent not only the discussion of the idea, but the ostracising of the person who spoke about it from society through concerted efforts to have them fired from jobs, for example (which were unrelated to the "idea", or the forum in which it was discussed), and working to prevent other members of society from interacting with them...Taking the target of the "attack" from being the "idea" and instead directing it towards the "person".
You mean like McCarthyism and the black list in the US? Or like death threats toward progressive members of Congress? I think you might find your idea of "cancel culture" is nothing new. Nor does it belong on any part of the political spectrum. You could say boycotting is "cancel culture." Of course, the term "cancel culture" is just a political cudgel used to do exactly what is professes to counter.
So how do you think the political right should act to stop their use use of techniques to "cancel" their opponents? Do you think it is acceptable for the political right to simply to simply refuse to compromise and delegitimize their opponents in order to "cancel" their position. This is the huge shift that has been happening in US politics. Do you think conservatives should be more open to discussion?
Instead of some mythical "political right should act to stop their use use of techniques to "cancel" their opponents", it would certainly help if you provided actual examples of where you believe this "cancelling" occurred (as it's appears to be such a big issue for you, based upon your focus upon it, let's start with 5 examples please)...It's easy to make vague assertions such as that, but without actual examples, they do noting to contribute to a discussion on the subject, instead simply casting (apparently baseless) aspersions on the targeted group.
McCarthyism
Dixie Chicks
Tea Party
Kathy Griffin
Josh Hawley's attack on Nike
Mitch McConnell obstructionism during the Obama administration
Attacks on the 1619 Project and the 1776 project
Attacks on BLM
Attacks on the witnesses for the 1st Trump impeachment and the loss of a career for the Vindman brothers
Attacks on the Muller investigation
Attacks on election officials
Attacks on health officials during COVID
Is that enough?
I asked for examples of "cancelling" by the right, not simply the "right" vocally disagreeing with\criticising them - You seem confused on this subject.
Was, for example, Mr Mueller (or the "election officials", or "health officials", or BLM) "fired" as a result of their legal words\actions\opinions outside of their employment (or from years prior to their employment) that had no bearing on their occupations?
How many of these examples resulted in the person\group that you claim was "cancelled" being fired and efforts by the "right" made to prevent their future employment, for legal words\actions\opinions unrelated to their work?
Seriously? Shall we start with McCarthyism and the loss of jobs in the entertainment industry? Why did the Vindman brother lose their careers?
Last edited by Jiheisho on 10 Feb 2021, 11:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
10 Feb 2021, 11:42 pm
Brictoria wrote:
Jiheisho wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
Jiheisho wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
Cancel culture, on the other hand, goes beyond telling a person (or group) that their idea is outmoded, and instead works to prevent not only the discussion of the idea, but the ostracising of the person who spoke about it from society through concerted efforts to have them fired from jobs, for example (which were unrelated to the "idea", or the forum in which it was discussed), and working to prevent other members of society from interacting with them...Taking the target of the "attack" from being the "idea" and instead directing it towards the "person".
You mean like McCarthyism and the black list in the US? Or like death threats toward progressive members of Congress? I think you might find your idea of "cancel culture" is nothing new. Nor does it belong on any part of the political spectrum. You could say boycotting is "cancel culture." Of course, the term "cancel culture" is just a political cudgel used to do exactly what is professes to counter.
So how do you think the political right should act to stop their use use of techniques to "cancel" their opponents? Do you think it is acceptable for the political right to simply to simply refuse to compromise and delegitimize their opponents in order to "cancel" their position. This is the huge shift that has been happening in US politics. Do you think conservatives should be more open to discussion?
Instead of some mythical "political right should act to stop their use use of techniques to "cancel" their opponents", it would certainly help if you provided actual examples of where you believe this "cancelling" occurred (as it's appears to be such a big issue for you, based upon your focus upon it, let's start with 5 examples please)...It's easy to make vague assertions such as that, but without actual examples, they do noting to contribute to a discussion on the subject, instead simply casting (apparently baseless) aspersions on the targeted group.
McCarthyism
Dixie Chicks
Tea Party
Kathy Griffin
Josh Hawley's attack on Nike
Mitch McConnell obstructionism during the Obama administration
Attacks on the 1619 Project and the 1776 project
Attacks on BLM
Attacks on the witnesses for the 1st Trump impeachment and the loss of a career for the Vindman brothers
Attacks on the Muller investigation
Attacks on election officials
Attacks on health officials during COVID
Is that enough?
I asked for examples of "cancelling" by the right, not simply the "right" vocally disagreeing with\criticising them - You seem confused on this subject.
Was, for example, Mr Mueller (or the "election officials", or "health officials", or BLM) "fired" as a result of their legal words\actions\opinions outside of their employment (or from years prior to their employment) that had no bearing on their occupations?
How many of these examples resulted in the person\group that you claim was "cancelled" being fired and efforts by the "right" made to prevent their future employment, for legal words\actions\opinions unrelated to their work?
An example of an attempt at cancelling (or maybe "counter-cancelling" would be more appropriate) would be the current #CancelDisneyPlus campaign.
This came about as a result of a "cancel" campaign against the lead\main actress on one of their shows for tweets made that had no bearing or impact on their job (while continuing to employ a producer who tweeted about sending children of a given political "leaning" into a woodchipper), leading to her being fired.
10 Feb 2021, 11:43 pm
Feyokien wrote:
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/07/politics/fact-check-trump-cancel-culture-boycotts-firings/index.html
There was a whole list here of the ex's attempts to cancel people, but can't read the source material now. I'll see if I can track down screenshots.
There was a whole list here of the ex's attempts to cancel people, but can't read the source material now. I'll see if I can track down screenshots.
I can't think of anyone/group on the right, here in Australia, engaging in cancel culture.
I believe it is a predominantly American phenomenon.
I'd be happy for anyone to advise me of a right-wing group, here in Australia, that is employing cancel culture tactics.
The left, here in Australia, however, have employed intimidation/cancelling tactics against businesses.
"Sleeping Giants" is one group.
Quote:
Sky News host Andrew Bolt says anonymous far-left activist group Sleeping Giants refuses to engage in debate, resorting to ‘shouting people down’ and ‘trying to silence them’. Research conducted by Sky News in February on the most active participants in the advertiser boycott campaign found that a single user was responsible for 43 per cent of the activity, and eight out of the ten most engaged accounts were anonymous. Some brands have succumbed to the online campaign by withdrawing their advertising from Mr Bolt’s program, including private health fund NIB.
This is financial terrorism, imo.
CockneyRebel
Veteran
Joined: 17 Jul 2004
Age: 51
Gender: Male
Posts: 121,201
Location: In my own little country
10 Feb 2021, 11:50 pm
Off Topic
Feyokien wrote:
Quote:
"Our country is starting to turn extremely liberal, and that's not what our country was founded on. If we read the Constitution, if we're true constitutionalists, we will realize that this country was founded on Judeo-Christian values," she said, adding, "If you're going to be in our country, you're going to have to live by the Christian values. Period."
This Trump supporting lady also wants to cancel everyone not Christian.
Recently, someone had a go at me for suggesting American politics has 'lurched' to the left.
Apparently, this lady supports my source's assertion.
10 Feb 2021, 11:56 pm
Jiheisho wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
Jiheisho wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
Jiheisho wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
Cancel culture, on the other hand, goes beyond telling a person (or group) that their idea is outmoded, and instead works to prevent not only the discussion of the idea, but the ostracising of the person who spoke about it from society through concerted efforts to have them fired from jobs, for example (which were unrelated to the "idea", or the forum in which it was discussed), and working to prevent other members of society from interacting with them...Taking the target of the "attack" from being the "idea" and instead directing it towards the "person".
You mean like McCarthyism and the black list in the US? Or like death threats toward progressive members of Congress? I think you might find your idea of "cancel culture" is nothing new. Nor does it belong on any part of the political spectrum. You could say boycotting is "cancel culture." Of course, the term "cancel culture" is just a political cudgel used to do exactly what is professes to counter.
So how do you think the political right should act to stop their use use of techniques to "cancel" their opponents? Do you think it is acceptable for the political right to simply to simply refuse to compromise and delegitimize their opponents in order to "cancel" their position. This is the huge shift that has been happening in US politics. Do you think conservatives should be more open to discussion?
Instead of some mythical "political right should act to stop their use use of techniques to "cancel" their opponents", it would certainly help if you provided actual examples of where you believe this "cancelling" occurred (as it's appears to be such a big issue for you, based upon your focus upon it, let's start with 5 examples please)...It's easy to make vague assertions such as that, but without actual examples, they do noting to contribute to a discussion on the subject, instead simply casting (apparently baseless) aspersions on the targeted group.
McCarthyism
Dixie Chicks
Tea Party
Kathy Griffin
Josh Hawley's attack on Nike
Mitch McConnell obstructionism during the Obama administration
Attacks on the 1619 Project and the 1776 project
Attacks on BLM
Attacks on the witnesses for the 1st Trump impeachment and the loss of a career for the Vindman brothers
Attacks on the Muller investigation
Attacks on election officials
Attacks on health officials during COVID
Is that enough?
I asked for examples of "cancelling" by the right, not simply the "right" vocally disagreeing with\criticising them - You seem confused on this subject.
Was, for example, Mr Mueller (or the "election officials", or "health officials", or BLM) "fired" as a result of their legal words\actions\opinions outside of their employment (or from years prior to their employment) that had no bearing on their occupations?
How many of these examples resulted in the person\group that you claim was "cancelled" being fired and efforts by the "right" made to prevent their future employment, for legal words\actions\opinions unrelated to their work?
Seriously? Shall we start with McCarthyism and the loss of jobs in the entertainment industry?
I thought "McCarthyism" was a thing of the past...Can you provide some examples (in the past 12 months, say, to be generous) where this occurred in the entertainment industry, being instigated by the "right"?
After all, you are claiming it is still occurring (If it wasn't, there would have been no reason to use it as an example of what needs to be "stopped" - You can't stop something that isn't occurring...), so it shouldn't be that difficult.
