Religious guilt tripping.

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Empiricism does acknowledge the dilemma that we cannot know whether or not our perception of reality is accurate. We simply have no choice but to proceed under the assumption that we do perceive reality as it is. Do you stop going to work and paying your bills because you cannot be certain you're not inside the Matrix? The same principle applies to learning about the universe.

Within that context, the body of scientific knowledge is reliably accurate. Angel brought up a good point about the reliability of peer review, but all theories for which there is a consensus have been confirmed across countless researchers, institutions, and fields that have all achieved consistent results independently. The dependability of advanced technology further demonstrates the reliability of science; a light bulb would not work if the theory of electromagnetism was incorrect.

God, however, has never been demonstrated with science. You may argue that you know God exists because you have faith, but Muslims, Hindus, Zoroastrians, and adherents of countless other religions also have faith in their beliefs. And since they cannot all be simultaneously true, this demonstrates that faith is not a reliable method to discern truth.

The fact that there are thousands of different religions and myths about gods and creation suggests that there is some element in the human psyche which causes us to create such myths. In that regard, there is nothing unique or remarkable about Christianity that would set it apart.

If the Christian god is apparent to everyone, then why are the people who "accept Christ" disproportionately represented in societies that predispose people to believe in the Christian religion?

God is not the simplest explanation for why the universe exists. If you argue that for something to exist it must have a cause, then you have to account for the cause of God. If you claim that God himself does not need a cause, then a universe that exists without a cause is simpler than a universe that needs to be created by a god that exists without a cause.

Also, why is the god of the Bible in particular a simpler explanation than the gods of other religions?

Since we have no evidence of a god intervening in the universe, a deistic god provides a simpler explanation than the Christian god.

Allah is also simpler than the Christian god because:
1- He is not a triad.
2- He judges each individual on the basis of their own faith and works, rather than requiring a complex plan of collective salvation for all of humanity.

The god of the Bible is logically inconsistent. God decided that humans deserve damnation because we are sinners. But it was God who created us; therefore if we are sinners, it is because that is how God made us. God sacrificed his son to save humanity from damnation; but it was God who decided to damn us to begin with. How is any of this "the simplest explanation" for anything?

As with simple and the whole idea of simple it is a matter of perspective. It could mean the fewest amount of steps but what I find simple others may find complicated and so on.

I find that the "simplest explanation" with less steps a lot of times for me is difficult for me to grasp and when more steps are added that clear up certain things it makes more sense to me.

Who or what decides what is simple and complex and how does it get decided except for perspective?

And, a lot of the "simplest explanation" seems arbitrary to me.

If a homosexual man helped the homeless, fed the poor, clothed the naked how is he not worthy of heaven? And, are we justified and saved through our faith, works or is it through both faith and works?

Me (as a gay man) *I died.*

Me: *I’m sucked into a white light.*

Me: * I see an old man next to pearly gates. He speaks*

Saint Peter: I am Saint Peter and I’m here to pronounce judgment on you.

Saint Peter: (After going through 5001 sins and barely staying awake)Your sin is an abomination against the lord, the sin of sodomy.
Me: Huh?

Saint Peter: Being a homosexual and taking a man as your partner. Leviticus 18:22 - Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it [is] abomination.

Me: Hold up! Yes! I was and still am a homosexual but did I not follow the greatest commandment of all which says

Me: Matthew 22:36-40 New International Version (NIV)

36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment.

39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b] 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

Me: And, if you look at the parable of the sheep and goats which say

Matthew 25:31-46 New International Version (NIV)
The Sheep and the Goats

31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
Me: Did I not do this when I helped many homeless people not only get off drugs but, and not just put them up in a place to stay but I was able to help get them jobs? Did I not rescue people especially women from an abusive situation? In fact, you must know I’m a sorcerer as well. Yet, I helped provide people food and even taught them how to grow their own food even in their own window sill. I used magic to help string things along. Yeah, I did things God told me not to do and I was attracted to other men and had a life partner who was male but did I not love God and love others as well? By loving others doesn’t that according to the parable of the sheep and goats imply I love God. Wasn’t I in his spirit?

Saint Peter: Galatians 2:16 ESV Yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.

Me: Wait a minute though! Didn’t God also say that Faith without works is dead?
Me: Faith Without Works Is Dead

James 2:14-26

14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?
15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food,
16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit?
17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without [a]your works, and I will show you my faith by [b]my works.
19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!
20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is [c]dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?
22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made [d]perfect?
23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was [e]accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God.
24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Saint Peter: Saint Peter: You have been judged unworthy of heaven. Off to the furnace with you.

Me: *Suffers hell’s fire and brimstone for all eternity*.

Scenario 1: What happens if I’m kind and I have to be dishonest to be kind?

Me: *I died!*

Me: * I see a glowing white light and I’m dragged to it.*

Me: *I see a pearly gate and Saint Peter.*

Saint Peter: Hello, I am here to judge you and your sins.

Me: Wait a minute! I accepted Jesus as my lord and savior why am I not judged on that alone?

Saint Peter: *Reads

Faith Without Works Is Dead

James 2:14-26

14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?

15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food,

16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit?

17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without [a]your works, and I will show you my faith by [b]my works.

19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!

20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is [c]dead?

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?

22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made [d]perfect?

23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was [e]accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God.

24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Me: I thought faith alone cut it and we weren’t saved by works. Doesn’t the Bible say this as well?

Saint Peter : I’m here to pronounce judgment on you not debate theology with you.

Me: Thinks to himself “huh, what?”

Saint Peter: *Goes through many of my sins and by the time he is on sin #1000 I’m half asleep and by sin #6001 he yells that’s another sin added for sloth.

Me: *I awake suddenly* Sins are counted at the pearly gates?

Saint Peter: Yes, now onto sin#6002. Again, you were dishonest with your wife when she asked you if she looked fat in her new dress and you answered no.

Me: I don’t understand sir. I followed this verse. Ephesians 4:32 "Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you." Was I not trying to show love towards her and kindness towards. Was I not supposed to keep the peace in our household? I don’t get it.

Saint Peter: You have been judged unworthy of heaven. Off to the furnace with you.

Me: I don’t even get a say or get to defend myself? Huh? What? Why?

Saint Peter: I don’t make the rules. Our heavenly father does! *Pulls lever*

Me: *Suffers hell’s fire and brimstone for all eternity*.



Scenario 2: What happens if I’m honest but honesty requires unkindness, quarrel and conflict to be honest?

Me: *I died!*

Me: * I see a glowing white light and I’m dragged to it.*

Me: *I see a pearly gate and Saint Peter.*

Saint Peter: Hello, I am here to judge you and your sins.

Me: Wait a minute! I accepted Jesus as my lord and savior why am I not judged on that alone?

Saint Peter: *Reads

Faith Without Works Is Dead

James 2:14-26

14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?

15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food,

16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit?

17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without [a]your works, and I will show you my faith by [b]my works.

19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!

20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is [c]dead?

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?

22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made [d]perfect?

23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was [e]accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God.

24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Me: I thought faith alone cut it and we weren’t saved by works. Doesn’t the Bible say this as well?

Saint Peter : I’m here to pronounce judgment on you not debate theology with you

Me: Thinks to himself “huh, what?”

Saint Peter: *Goes through many of my sins and by the time he is on sin #1000 I’m half asleep and by sin #6001 he yells that’s another sin added for sloth.

Me: *I awake suddenly* Sins are counted at the pearly gates?

Saint Peter: Yes, now onto sin#6002. Again, you were unkind with your wife when she asked you if she looked fat in her new dress and you answered yes.

Me: I don’t understand sir. I followed this verse. Colossians 3:9 ESV “Do not lie to one another, seeing that you have put off the old self with its practices.” Was I not trying to be honest with her? What other choice could I have made in this situation? Do I avoid the question entirely? Would I not lie by omission then? Do I tell her I don’t wish to answer? Refusing to answer would be unkind as well because most people would assume when one lacks an answer it will be the negative answer. I don’t get it. How was I to win?

Saint Peter: You have been judged unworthy of heaven. Off to the furnace with you.

Me: I don’t even get a say or get to defend myself? Huh? What? Why?

Saint Peter: I don’t make the rules. Our heavenly father does! *Pulls lever*

Me: *Suffers hell’s fire and brimstone for all eternity*.

Me (as author not character in skit): How was I to avoid sin and show both absolute love and absolute honesty exactly?

Setting: Playing Dungeons and Dragons

Players: some male and some female.

John: Ok Debbie, it’s time for you to roll the dice.

Debbie: ok!

Debbie: *grabs slice of pizza and drinks her coke*

Debbie *rolls dice*

Card: *A vast treasure and an infinite amount of points will be waiting appear for you if you can answer this question. The question is “The world is created by a creator including mankind. Mankind sins and is imbued with the knowledge of Good and Evil when he ate from the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil. Because of this, man’s inclinations is towards evil and sin. If you are a man then you are a part of mankind and are inclined towards doing evil and sin. How is it possible for a man to choose good if he is inclined towards evil and sin?

Debbie: Whaaa?

Marilynn: Let me see that. *she looks* Since we’re not men I guess we’re not inclined towards evil and sin. *She grabs another slice of pizza and drinks a sprite.*

John: I don’t think you understand what man means in this sense. I think man means human being or homo sapien. Sorry ladies according to this you’re inclined towards sin and evil like the rest of us. Anyway, I think it is a good question. How is it possible for a man to choose good if he is inclined towards evil and sin?

Matt: *eating his salad and a slice of pizza* I think inclined means has a tendency towards or it is a trend. Like, overweight and obese people are more likely to have a stroke or heart attack. That does not mean every overweight or obese people will have a heart attack.

Matt: I do think this question opens up further questions.

John: What do you mean bro?

Matt: I mean you know what I do right? I create applications and study the efficiency of algorithms.

Debbie: Again? I don’t want to hear this. Can we get on with the game already?

Marilynn: Shut up Debbie! Go on Matt!

Debbie: I know you have a crush on Matt! I don’t care but we’re having game night I don’t want to hear him pontificate about the efficiency again of algorithms.

Debbie: Fine! Go on Matt. Ugggggghhhh!

Matt: As I was saying, there are different kinds of errors in programming code. There are errors in which for example you misuse a comma and then there are errors in which the code works but not as expected. The syntax is fine but there is a flaw in the underlying logic somewhere.

Matt: Example I create my own random number generator. The numbers it can spit out are 1-10. All whole numbers. But, each number is only supposed to be chose 10% of the time. What actually happens is that 1-3 are chosen 80% of the time. John, do you have any pen and paper dude?

John: Ya! Sure! Coming right up!

Matt: Thanks! Ok! This is what we’re supposed to see for the most part

1

2

4

5

6

8

2

10

9



Matt: The numbers may repeat every so often. And, that’s ok. This is what we would want the logic of the code to spit out.

Matt: But, what if we got this instead.



1

3

3

2

2

1

1

9

6





Matt: We get randomized numbers between 1-10 as you all see but 1-3 most of the time. This is a logic error.

Matt: Assuming, we’re talking about the Bible and God of the Bible I see these conclusions. Before, I state them it is said that God is omnipotent meaning he can do whatever he wants with no limits, he has unlimited knowledge or omniscient, he is Omni-benevolent meaning he is all good and can do nothing morally wrong or logically wrong. He doesn’t make mistakes.

Matt: If we can assume this logic is true then God had a certain intent when he created our world. God intended for mankind to tend towards evil based upon the parameters he set up including having an easily accessible, unguarded tree that gave man the knowledge of good and evil.

Matt: If we assume that this was not his intent then it must be true that God or the creator had to have made mistakes or inadvertently created a logic error, correct? And, if he makes mistakes then how can God be omni-benevolent, omniscient and be omni-potent?

Matt: There is another conclusion. Maybe it was mankind in his imperfections who ascribed these characteristic to God.

Matt: Final conclusion is that this God of the Bible does not exist at all.

Debbie: *Eats another slice of pizza* I’m actually starting to get interested. Let’s assume the Christian view is correct and inclined means the trend is for all of us to sin and to do evil. Let’s go back to the original question. How is it possible for a man to choose good if he is inclined towards evil and sin? My answer to this question is that for the most part and with some exception is that we will sin. I have a question of my own. If, for the most part we will sin and my answer is right then I have some questions. How do we have the free will to choose good including accepting Jesus as our lord and savior and how is it morally righteous to judge us for any of our actions, thoughts and beliefs at all if for the most part we can’t choose otherwise outside of this trend for ourselves?

Matt: Wow, Debbie my dear these are very insightful questions. You’re more intelligent than I thought you were.

Debbie: And, you’re a jerk!

Matt: How do we resolve all of this? I have no answer. I’m sorry for my bad response to you Debbie. My social skills are not that great.

Debbie: It is fine but watch what you say to people. I have no answer either.

Matt: Me either.

All: Neither do I.

John: I guess it is my go since none of us could answer the question.

Matt: I think Debbie won the treasure and with that comes an infinite amount of points.

Debbie : Yay! I won!

Me (as the author of this skit): How can we choose good if we’re all inclined to sin and to do evil? Did God want things to occur the way they have occurred? Did God wish and allow for evil and sin to be in our world? Was this part of his intended purpose and his plan? I would like to submit more questions these people in my skit never asked? What is his plan? Why did he make the plan this way? What was the point? If God did not choose things the way they went then does it mean that God makes mistakes? Is it possible for God to make logic errors as defined above? How is he omni-benevolent, omniscient, and omnipotent as claimed either way it goes? Could it be possible that man does have a fallen nature and mankind in his imperfections is the one who ascribed these things to God when he is not these things? Either way it goes, how is it morally right for God to pronounce judgment for any of our behaviors, beliefs and thoughts at all?

How does God love a cheerful giver if hell exists?

Me: * I decide to convert to Christianity*

Pastor (during service): I call for those who wish to accept Jesus Christ and to those who wish to renew their faith to come to the pulpit.

Pastor: *He goes to each person who formed a line with others* He asks them do you accept Jesus Christ as your lord and Savior?

Me: (He gets to me): Yes sir, I do.

Pastor: *says a prayer*

Pastor: * he has us sit down and continues with the service.

Pastor: *he reads 2 Corinthians 9*

Pastor: Look at verse 7. God wants us to be a cheerful giver. “As every man purposeth in his heart, so let him give, not grudgingly or out of compulsion; for God loveth the cheerful giver.” We not only have to give Jesus Christ our faith, our obedience and our loyalty we have to help the poor, the sick, the destitute and visit the imprisoned. *He started reading Matthew 25:31-46. * We have to be the sheep who does this and not the goats who do not. We have to do this with cheerfulness in our hearts for God so loves a cheerful giver that we may give not grudgingly or out of compulsion.

Me: *confused* If God wants us to truthfully give then aren’t we being compelled to do so out of the fear of eternal damnation and the fire and brimstone of hell? Aren’t we doing so out of the fear of being in the goat group? It seems like by creating this hell and sending others who don’t accept Jesus as his lord and savior and cheerfully give then one is forced to give by compulsion? How does this even make sense? *Fortunately, I’m in the back so I quietly get up, walk out of the service, use the restroom, go to my car, start the engine, and drive to Popeye’s and get a breakfast combo with fried chicken, gravy, biscuits and fries. *

Me: (as author and speaks like Rod Serling while smoking a cigarette, wait a minute I don’t smoke) How does this make sense? How does it make sense for a God and his son who is God to love a cheerful giver yet if we don’t give or accept Jesus as our lord and savior we burn in fire and brimstone for all eternity? How does God truthfully love a cheerful giver at all?

I always found the idea that a supreme deity created the entire universe just so he could obsess over one species of ape on one little planet quite laughable.

It makes infinitely more sense that said species ape in its arrogance dreamt up such a deity.

I don't believe it was "arrogance."

I believe it originated as a way for Early Man to make sense of the phenomena around them.

Or...they merely decided to create a symbolic story based upon these phenomena.

check this out everyone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoQ6ZC8EUQ0

You should probably not call people names just for being Christian.

If they're Christian bigots which seems to be a problem in certain sects, call them out on their homophobia/transphobia/sexism.

And if they think something stupid, let them know that you think it's a stupid belief or maybe just be more tactful & say 'I don't agree with so and so'.

But calling someone an outright idiot just for being Christian is wrong.

Not as wrong as saying someone's going to Hell for not being a Christian though. That kind of thing should def be kept to yourself.

I don't think that being a Christian (or any other religion for that matter) makes someone an idiot or a bad person by default. But talking about the Christianity itself, the Bible very clearly promotes sexism and homophobia in clear and concise language, as well endorsing slavery and commanding entire genocides on numerous occasions. Anyone who tries to deny that is simply refusing to acknowledge reality.

Exodus 21:20-21

20 “Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, 21 but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property.

Since when does "everyone does it" justify evil and cruelty? The Bible never had any trouble banning a long list of completely arbitrary things "everyone does" including eating shellfish, wearing mixed fabrics, tattoos, working on Saturday, bowl haircuts, etc.