Well, Trump was working for the Russians all along.

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Brictoria
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16 Jul 2021, 11:18 am

VegetableMan wrote:

Fnord wrote:

VegetableMan wrote:

Fnord wrote:

VegetableMan wrote:

cyclist_Netherlands wrote:

Is it not wiser to consider Donald Trump as a symptom instead of a cause?

He was a symtom of the disease...

... and a cause or catalyst of others.

Maybe. You'll have to elaborate.

A slow or non-existent response to a global pandemic could catalyze the pandemic into a deadly plague, for example.

I agree, but I give him partial blame, because the U.S. isn't the only country with s poor Covid response..

It wasn't just other countries: I seem to recall leadership in the legislative branch were also working against actions that he was trying to take (trying to convince the public that his travel bans were"racist", for instance)...

Fnord
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16 Jul 2021, 11:28 am

Brictoria wrote:

VegetableMan wrote:

Fnord wrote:

VegetableMan wrote:

Fnord wrote:

VegetableMan wrote:

cyclist_Netherlands wrote:

Is it not wiser to consider Donald Trump as a symptom instead of a cause?

He was a symtom of the disease...

... and a cause or catalyst of others.

Maybe. You'll have to elaborate.

A slow or non-existent response to a global pandemic could catalyze the pandemic into a deadly plague, for example.

I agree, but I give him partial blame, because the U.S. isn't the only country with s poor Covid response..

Thank you for highlighting my quotes in orange! It is not my usual "basic black", but it is much more noticable!

I may start using it myself!

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magz
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16 Jul 2021, 11:32 am

Fnord wrote:

Thank you for highlighting my quotes in orange! It is not my usual "basic black", but it is much more noticable!

I may start using it myself!

Please, don't! :pale:

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Fnord
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16 Jul 2021, 11:45 am

magz wrote:

Fnord wrote:

Thank you for highlighting my quotes in orange! It is not my usual "basic black", but it is much more noticable! I may start using it myself!

Please, don't!

Aww... c'mon, Magz!

The alternative would be to complain to the moderators every time he altered one of my posts!

funeralxempire
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16 Jul 2021, 2:27 pm

So when do we see the pee-pee tape?

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16 Jul 2021, 2:45 pm

funeralxempire wrote:

So when do we see the pee-pee tape?

Как только Путину это наскучит.

naturalplastic
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16 Jul 2021, 2:54 pm

VegetableMan wrote:

This doesn't sound very "pro-Russia" either:

https://amp-cnn-com.cdn.ampproject.org/ ... 5251%2524s

Did you actually read this article before you posted it?

The article is about how the US govt was doing things against Russia without Trump's knowledge or approval. Not about anything anti Russia that Trump was doing. In fact it talks about how Defense and intel agencies often went around Trump's back to do things to counter Russia, because Trump had a bad habit of sharing secrets WITH the Russians.

If anything the article shows Trump as BEING pro Russian. Certainly doesnt help your help your claim that he was somehow anti Russian.

VegetableMan
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16 Jul 2021, 3:14 pm

naturalplastic wrote:

VegetableMan wrote:

This doesn't sound very "pro-Russia" either:

https://amp-cnn-com.cdn.ampproject.org/ ... 5251%2524s

You're right. I was in a waking state when I grabbed that. Not good for my argument.

Still, I never claimed that Trump was "anti-Russia," just that he had ramped up tensions with Russia. The air attack on Syria is still evidence.

Just because Trump did things that may have favored Russia doesn't prove that he favoured Russia, and it most certainly doesn't prove the ludicrous claim that he was working for Russia. It just means that Putin and Trump had common ground on certain political issues.

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16 Jul 2021, 5:42 pm

VegetableMan wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

VegetableMan wrote:

This doesn't sound very "pro-Russia" either:

https://amp-cnn-com.cdn.ampproject.org/ ... 5251%2524s

Trump bent over backwards denying that Putin had first instigated a cyberwar with us, and only reacted against the Russians when pushed by political opposition.
As far as Syria is concerned - - not much actually grew out of what might have been theater put on for Americans by Putin and Trump. Yes, I know I sound paranoid by saying so, but then again, such things are hardly beyond the realm of possibilities when it comes to a spymaster like Putin.

You may be correct, but it still doesn't mean Trump was working for the Russians.

Again, it's a piece of a puzzle, making a picture clearer. And that picture is of Trump clearly favoring Putin over our traditional allies. One has to ask - perhaps rhetorically - why.

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16 Jul 2021, 5:47 pm

VegetableMan wrote:

naturalplastic wrote:

VegetableMan wrote:

This doesn't sound very "pro-Russia" either:

https://amp-cnn-com.cdn.ampproject.org/ ... 5251%2524s

I think you are refusing to see the forest for the trees, my friend.

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16 Jul 2021, 5:48 pm

Mr Reynholm wrote:

When the writer uses words like "purportedly" or "suggests" its usually BS. But more to the point this is about Putin not Trump.
The reason the media can't let Trump go is because he must be made an example of. No private citizen can ever be allowed into the presidency. Only the ruling class can be allowed such power.

As if Trump isn't part of the ruling class. Big business is America's ruling class, which includes Trump.

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ezbzbfcg2
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16 Jul 2021, 5:51 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

Again, it's a piece of a puzzle, making a picture clearer. And that picture is of Trump clearly favoring Putin over our traditional allies. One has to ask - perhaps rhetorically - why.

The take-away is that Putin apparently used propaganda to help influence Trump being elected. The USA has done the same in many countries, most notably Cuba for all those Castro decades. Doesn't mean Castro himself was behind it or approved it.

Now, if Putin thought getting Trump elected would be a good thing for Russia, of course he'd be delighted when it actually happened. Of course he opened his arms for Trump. And Trump, a self-lover, took to it greatly. Trump always liked people who (seemed to) kiss his ass.

This doesn't mean that Trump actually colluded with Putin, or even knew why Putin was so lovey-dovey. The article you posted doesn't imply Trump and Putin had a back alley deal to get him elected, just that Putin thought a Trump win would be good for destabilization.

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16 Jul 2021, 5:56 pm

cyclist_Netherlands wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

cyclist_Netherlands wrote:

Is it not wiser to consider Donald Trump as a symptom instead of a cause?

Please explain your point to me.

Suppose Donald Trump would have never existed, do you honestly believe that the world have been better?

You can't tell that.

It could have been better, equal or worse.

My bet is that it would have been equal in some way.

America wouldn't have had a rocky relationship with our allies, including your country. Plus there would have been a saner policy regarding Covid in America, saving literally millions of lives here. On top of that, nearly half the American people wouldn't have chosen to embrace insanity pertaining to open racism, quasi-fascism, the anti-vax hysteria, insane QAnon conspiracy theories, and the general denial of reality.

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VegetableMan
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16 Jul 2021, 6:08 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

VegetableMan wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

VegetableMan wrote:

This doesn't sound very "pro-Russia" either:

https://amp-cnn-com.cdn.ampproject.org/ ... 5251%2524s

You may be correct, but it still doesn't mean Trump was working for the Russians.

Again, it's a piece of a puzzle, making a picture clearer. And that picture is of Trump clearly favoring Putin over our traditional allies. One has to ask - perhaps rhetorically - why.

Read the last paragraph of my previous post. Of course he might favor Putin because of shared beliefs, interests and values. Prime Minister Netanyahu of Israel and Trump were great buddies for the same reason.

When you complete the puzzle, and have solid evidence to support your claims, I'd be happy to hear it. Until then, it still remains conjecture.

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16 Jul 2021, 6:09 pm

ezbzbfcg2 wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

Again, it's a piece of a puzzle, making a picture clearer. And that picture is of Trump clearly favoring Putin over our traditional allies. One has to ask - perhaps rhetorically - why.

When people bring up, "Well, America did it to someone else," hardly means I'm willing to just throw up my hands and say, "All's fair in love and war." I could care less if America did it to someone else; I still don't want an enemy manipulating my country.
I will repeat: this is a piece in a larger puzzle. Putin believes the greatest tragedy in human history is the loss of Russian prestige and power with the fall of the Soviet Union, which he blames on America and her allies. Manipulating Trump was part of a plan meant to result in the same fate for America that had befallen Russia.
Even if Trump hadn't been under Putin's direct influence - which is difficult to believe, as we know he was on the phone with Putin every evening - the fact that Trump was meant to be a destabilizing influence still implies the Trump administration was weaponized by Putin against the United States. It was still intentional to harm our country.

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16 Jul 2021, 6:15 pm

VegetableMan wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

VegetableMan wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

VegetableMan wrote:

This doesn't sound very "pro-Russia" either:

https://amp-cnn-com.cdn.ampproject.org/ ... 5251%2524s

You may be correct, but it still doesn't mean Trump was working for the Russians.

Again, it's a piece of a puzzle, making a picture clearer. And that picture is of Trump clearly favoring Putin over our traditional allies. One has to ask - perhaps rhetorically - why.

Yes, Trump loves his strongmen, which he had yearned to be one of. And Putin used that to manipulate Trump. Have you taken into account that Putin wants to see American power destroyed and humiliated on the world stage? Because it fits with his use of Trump. Maybe what I'm seeing is ultimately just conjecture, but that hardly means I'm wrong. Why are you so eager to exonerate Trump?

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