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Axeman
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10 Oct 2021, 2:53 pm

magz wrote:
Don't use youtube as a source of information.
It's an entertainment service with no aim at any reliability.


It's this at best.



Jakki
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10 Oct 2021, 3:50 pm

but utube can be a handy reference starting place at times , ?


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naturalplastic
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10 Oct 2021, 3:55 pm

Jakki wrote:
but utube can be a handy reference starting place at times , ?


For some thing Wiki is better, but for some things Utubes is good for dipping your toe in the water of a topic.

Utube is such a free-for-all though that you have to know a lot about a subject to know the wheat from the chaff.



aghogday
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10 Oct 2021, 5:48 pm

Jakki wrote:
Incredibly insightful and well written concept , in the form of prose aghogday ..
Most impressive that you have come so far.!



Thanks..:)


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10 Oct 2021, 6:27 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Jakki wrote:
but utube can be a handy reference starting place at times , ?


For some thing Wiki is better, but for some things Utubes is good for dipping your toe in the water of a topic.

Utube is such a free-for-all though that you have to know a lot about a subject to know the wheat from the chaff.


Have enough general knowledge to seperate the wheat from the excrimate . BUT ! on at least one occassion, have used fairly precise detailed info from utube to change a fuel injector on my foriegn car . Which , i had not anticipated my mechanical skills to be anywhere near adequate ,to be working on a car engine.


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naturalplastic
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10 Oct 2021, 9:51 pm

Jakki wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Jakki wrote:
but utube can be a handy reference starting place at times , ?


For some thing Wiki is better, but for some things Utubes is good for dipping your toe in the water of a topic.

Utube is such a free-for-all though that you have to know a lot about a subject to know the wheat from the chaff.


Have enough general knowledge to seperate the wheat from the excrimate . BUT ! on at least one occassion, have used fairly precise detailed info from utube to change a fuel injector on my foriegn car . Which , i had not anticipated my mechanical skills to be anywhere near adequate ,to be working on a car engine.

I was just going to say, but had to run to go to work, that Utube is great on how-to. Practical stuff. Like how to clean the iron grates on your stove. Or how to change your fuel injector.

The problem is with academic stuff. There are good little programs by nonacademic folks speaking in good faith about topics. But sometimes they get facts a little off.



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11 Oct 2021, 8:22 am

naturalplastic wrote:
... Utube is great on how-to.  Practical stuff.  Like how to clean the iron grates on your stove.  Or how to change your fuel injector.

The problem is with academic stuff.  There are good little programs by nonacademic folks speaking in good faith about topics.  But sometimes they get facts a little off.
Some of my past technicians have made the mistake of applying procedures they had learned on YouTube to projects they had going in the lab.

"Tuned to Maximum Smoke" is the usual result.

The sad part is that there are perfectly good, up-to-date manuals in the lab that they could have read to learn the proper way to do things.

"But it's boring!"  (Less boring than standing in the unemployment line?)
"Who has time for that stuff?"  (It took more time to write it than you would take to read it.)
"I can never find the page I need."  (That is what the Table of Contents, the Index, and the page numbers are for.)

I guess that some lazy people would rather watch a video than put forth the effort to actually learn something.


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11 Oct 2021, 9:03 am

Fnord wrote:
I guess that some people would rather watch a video than put forth the effort to actually learn something.
Well, it's possible to do both you know, even with the aid of YouTube. :wink:

There are some great electronics blogs there, aimed mostly at "those in the know" - and being one of those I can vouch for their accuracy, thoughtfulness and just plain interesting fun.

It's also proven useful for reviews and how-tos of software (specifically DAWs) which the provided documentation rarely goes into much detail. It's educational to find someone showing exactly, well, how to do (x) and invariably there are also extra nuggets of useful information imparted at the same time.

Likewise music synthesisers - having someone work through the various options in detail has also proven extremely useful and more importantly, accurate.

There is a wealth of how-tos for many other topics and they are, in the main, very educational and useful as alluded to upthread.

So I think it's overstating the case to simply say "don't let YouTube do your thinking for you" because in very many cases, it does nothing of the sort - quite the reverse: it can encourage further investigation and thought.

There are of course also various flavors of idiocy, from flat-earthers to endless wu sites promoting medical impossibilities - but that's not all YouTube is.

That said, there are far too many cases here where a video consists of the only content in the opening post of a thread. Now that's intellectually lazy and wide open to the "thinking for you" accusation. If an OP can't be bothered to give their own thoughts and hooks for readers to grab and use as a discussion launch-point - why should those readers bother trying to work out what they are?


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11 Oct 2021, 9:13 am

Cornflake wrote:
... So I think it's overstating the case to simply say "don't let YouTube do your thinking for you" because in very many cases, it does nothing of the sort - quite the reverse: it can encourage further investigation and thought.
There is a big difference between videos that inspire independent thought and videos that tell people what to think.  There is also a big difference between videos that provide accurate, well-thought, step-by-step "How To" instructions and videos made by people who obviously have no background knowledge in what they are doing.
Cornflake wrote:
There are of course also various flavors of idiocy, from flat-earthers to endless wu sites promoting medical impossibilities - but that's not all YouTube is.
Most of the time, it seems the haystack is nothing but hay.  Get the point?
Cornflake wrote:
That said, there are far too many cases here where a video consists of the only content in the opening post of a thread. Now that's intellectually lazy and wide open to the "thinking for you" accusation. If an OP can't be bothered to give their own thoughts and hooks for readers to grab and use as a discussion launch-point - why should those readers bother trying to work out what they are?
THANK YOU!  I have tried to be subtle about this, but to little or no effect.

If we report such thread-openers from now on, will the mods intervene with one of their timely suggestions?


:D


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Last edited by Fnord on 11 Oct 2021, 9:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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11 Oct 2021, 9:14 am

I learned how to make make a bow drill on YouTube. It took me five tries to get it right, though.


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11 Oct 2021, 9:50 am

A little story...

The manufacturer of a certain radio transceiver will not sell the maintenance manual, but insists instead that owners send broken units to the factory for repair.  Turnaround time is six months or more.  Out of sheer desperation, I searched YouTube for anything on alignment and adjustment procedures, and found a video that allegedly gave instructions for tweaking the radio for out-of-band operations.

One of the first lessons was "Increase the Power", and showed an adjustment being made.  Sure enough, the power meter on the radio showed an increase.  However, once I had back-engineered the radio for myself, I found that the adjustment being made affected only the sensitivity of the radio's own internal power meter, and the output power was not affected at all!

This is but one example out of many; but I will never trust YouTube videos to do my thinking for me.

(As a side note, my back-engineering led me to produce a maintenance manual as a PDF document that I quietly share only with other licensed Amateur Radio operators and licensed Radiotelephone engineers.)


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Cornflake
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11 Oct 2021, 10:45 am

Fnord wrote:
Most of the time, it seems the haystack is nothing but hay.  Get the point?
Look harder/wider. Seek and ye shall find, etc. :wink:
There is plenty of good stuff amongst the dross.

Quote:
THANK YOU!  I have tried to be subtle about this, but to little or no effect.

If we report such thread-openers from now on, will the mods intervene with one of their timely suggestions?
It's not something that requires moderator intervention; we don't moderate for quality of post/intellectual ability (spam & trolling aside) - but it is something members can point out, politely.


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Axeman
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11 Oct 2021, 10:58 am

Fnord wrote:
THANK YOU!  I have tried to be subtle about this, but to little or no effect.

If we report such thread-openers from now on, will the mods intervene with one of their timely suggestions?[/color]

:D


You mean can you tattle on people and have the mods shut down threads you don't like.



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11 Oct 2021, 11:01 am

Nope, AFAIK he's never pointed out such threads to moderators.


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11 Oct 2021, 11:05 am

Axeman wrote:
Fnord wrote:
THANK YOU!  I have tried to be subtle about this, but to little or no effect.  If we report such thread-openers from now on, will the mods intervene with one of their timely suggestions?
You mean can you tattle on people and have the mods shut down threads you don't like.
If I could get the mods to shut down even 1/10th of the threads I do not like, there would be a lot of shut-down threads.


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aghogday
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11 Oct 2021, 12:39 pm



SMiLes, i'm Glad We Have Folks Like Our 'Resident Engineer'

Here Who Insure my Car Radio Works Reliably For Decades Without Fail...

SMiLes, i'm Glad We Have
Folks Like Jakki, Who Has Both The Ability to
Understand my Style of Writing That is Unique;
Plus it's Kinda

Nice She

Actually
Expresses
Appreciation

For What is Usually
More Related As A 'Sore
Thumb'; Haha, Who Sticks Out Here...

(i Worked in Customer Service for Decades; Yes,
More Folks Complain about what they do
Not Like Than What They Do; i Already
KNew how many Views; Yes, For What i
Do Here Has the the potential to Attract
Solo From the Beginning with Smiles;

Just From My Experience of All the
Smiling Customers Who Never Said
A Word; Just Returning EYes of Happy LiGHT)

True, i'm Glad Folks Like Carl Sagan Exist
too Bringing Science That Shows The UniVerse
Does Not Revolve Around the Earth; Yet Humans
Are "Made of Star Stuff" As We Are The UniVerse

As Much as the
SaMe REAL SO-CALLED
GOD IS US; YES NATuRE ALL...

And Lord Knows, Our Moderator
Cornflake And Others Like Him
in Information Technology Who Provide

An Information Highway to Express Every Human
Art And Science; And So Much More For All Recorded
Human History; And So Much More; Yes, Cornflake Who Even takes

A Volunteer Effort to Help Create Rules Here and Enforce them for Years,
So The Whole Place Here Will Not Turn into Mad Max And Beyond With His Thunderdome;

Yet You See, if i Have no Frigging Clue What "Mad Max And Beyond With His Thunderdome" is,

There Are Folks Who Have Uploaded Precisely What That is to YouTube, So i Can
And Will have a look, As i am one of 'those Curious People' Who Wants to Learn

It all; No Matter if i Agree or Not with What other Folks Say or Do ALL AROUND

THE WORLD FOR REAL.

Okay, i Covered the
Advantage of Scientists,
Information Technology Specialists,
Engineers; And Yes Don't Forget the

Math

As i Naturally
Excel in Numbers too...

YouTube And Really The Rest
of Online is A Grand Experiment
of what Happens When Avenues

Are Created to Allow Greatest

Freedoms of Expression;

At First, it was Like
The Wild, Wild,
West and

Now There are New
Sheriff's in Town; Yes,

And Rules to Regulate

Systems Therein to Make Sure

They Don't Get too Far Out of Control,

Where Humans Get Harmed in Huge Societies too...

The Study of the Human Mind is Correct, Humans Pay Most
Attention to Potential Dangers in Life and Bond Together to
Survive When Fear Comes into Play; And No Different Than Old
Time Religion; Deplorable Acts of Humanity Do Come in Despicable

Ways to Take Advantage

Of Human 'Minion' Nature

This Way

To Make
Some Big

Snake-Oil Money Still...
Or Load Up the Coffer At the
Church over Threats of Sticks
of Hell After Death; And Carrots
of Heaven After Death; Meanwhile,

Robbing Folks of their Individual

Human Freedoms To Not Have

To Endure A Violent

Child Rape and

Carry Daddy's

Baby to Term;

Or What About at Least

As Much Mercy As We Give Our
Pets, When my Mother Had to go Without
Food or Drink for 8 Days, While i Put My
Cat Under General Anesthesia, Where He

(My Doctor Said, "Sorry, Usually Folks
Only Last 3 Days; Your Mother Has
An Incredibly Strong Heart;" And
Science Does Actually Show
Love Grows A Stronger
Heart as Also Shown
in 'the Redemption'
of 'The Grinch'
Who Once
Stole

Christmas too)

Didn't even Have

To Feel the

Struggle

of A Shot
For A Quicker
Less Miserable
Death With the
Most Dignity Possible...

Humans Are No More Rational Than They Ever
Were; We Just See Enough of What Humans are
Capable of Outside of the Hell We Already Believe

is Socially Acceptable in Our Own Circles of Real Insanity on Earth...

And Maybe That's A Good Thing For Us to Truly See Who We aRe Now;

And Who We Greater May come to Be With More Kindness and Mercy

Toward Each Other More This way... All The Folks at Night Have

Come Out of Their Motels in Broad Day Light; at Least

We Can/Will Have Some Reference

Point of People are

Alike all over

the World; Sure, Yes,

Let's Try to Understand

Each Other Better And at

Best See the Value that Other
Folks May Be able to See that

We Have Not Gained Yet in Life
As Truly A Superior Intelligence of KiNdness...

Yet THere is Human Nature And Our Number One
Propensity to Bond over Fearful Stuff In Life; This

Is the Human Mountain We Have to Climb, Our ShadowS iNDeed...

The Video that the OP Brought May Not Be Perfectly True; Yet it is
Surely Not Perfectly False Either As Moving Meditation Works As

Science Shows this is True...

And This Is Why We Need
Folks Who Are able to

Touch All the

Black and

White and Colors, True as well...

We Will Learn As Much From what
We Disagree on and More Than We
Agree on For Sure; Yet Only if We aRe
Able to Open our Minds; And Science

Shows This is Much More Difficult for
Conservative Leaning Minds to Do Than
More Liberal Minds Aside Any Specific

Political
Party

Persuasion...

Life is Both Science And

Art; Yang and Yin; This Struggle

For Balance is Surely Nothing New;

Yet More Fun to me Than Ever Before of

Course as i Rate 100 Percent on Tests for
Open-Mindedness And Extroversion; Yet

i Will Surely Switch-hit to 100 Percent
Introversion As Well And Be As Happy

As Most Anyone Generating

THeir Own 'Autistic Autotelic'

Bliss and Nirvana Meditating

Dancing Singing Free

In Flow; Yes, No,

Not All Folks Get it;

Yet THere Are Still Rooms

Left in My Kinda Hotel too...

i Just Hope that the Op Has Thick Enough

SKin to Stay Around Here and Contribute More

Out of the Box MuSings About Life; For it is True,

Look at all of the Discussion, The Op's One Video Suggestion

Has Provided so far...

We Don't
Learn Now

New The Most

By Just Agreeing;

However, Yes, We

Live Better if We Will

Cooperate At Least Enough

to Keep the Door of Open Minded
Ways of Life at Least 'Cracked' Insuring

Hehe of Course It Doesn't All Fall Out too; HAha...

Hehe, i had a Few Sips of my Wife's Coffee at iHop

This Morning; i Was Ready to Go Out and Buy a New

Car And then

i Touched

My Shadow

And Came Back to Earth...

She's Like My Mother, She Usually
Doesn't Let me Have a Sip; My Mother
Used to When We Watched Alfred Hitchcock

Movies Late at Night; Such Vivid Memories

of "The Birds" Rebelling Against HumanKind's

(In Santa Rosa County In California, Thank God, Literally
Far Away From Santa Rosa County in Florida, Then in the
60's, Hehe as i kinda Took Stuff Literally Then True too)

Onslaught of Ignorance Against The Balance

Of Nature; Wasn't hard for AlFred

Hitchock to Figure

Out What

Was Coming

Next Either or

Rod Serling And

The Twilight Zone,
We Have Always Lived
Now, in Engineer and 'William Blake' Ways
of Seeing The Black and White And Colors More...

A Greatest Compliment i Could Ever imagine

is

'You Don't

Make Sense;'

(Yes, Thank You
Resident Engineer,
As that Applies to
my Propensity for
Literal Restricted
Left Brain Ways
of Think As Well)

Same One William

Blake Got Until

He Still Lives Forever

Now In his Unique
Song of His Soul too...

i'll Leave Ya With A 'Dead
Poet's Society Reminder'

And Another Personal

Note for me Not to Drink Coffee, hehe...

i Decided to BReaTHE Free Everywhere i Go And i Do...

As i BeCoME

Both the

Science
And Art

of Wind
That is
The Feather me...

-F. Gump, ET, AI...

MayBe i, Yet L, i Am,
TRuE, iN LiGHT Through DarK NoW...

And As Far As Folks Who Don't So Eloquently
Speak in Writing And Technical Lists; And Only
Share Brief Snippets of Information Copied From Somewhere
Else; And YouTube Videos and the Such; i Didn't Find the Ability to
Express Myself online Until i Had Nothing Else i Could Do, Yet type
on A Computer Losing Effective Use of Seeing And Hearing; i Had no

Option; Yet to Finally Look Within,
Dig Deep and Bring Something Out
As i Spent my Entire Life Doing Someone
Else's Instruction Manual of Life; The Blindness;
That Deafness; That Lameness as i stumbled and
fell out the Backdoor without even the Focus to make
A TV Dinner i Struggled to Make in A MicroWave Back in 2008;

i Couldn't Even Maintain the Focus to Play A Game of Tic-Tac-Toe with my Wife...

i Didn't Even Have the
Ability to Remember the
Feeling if i ever Smiled before
in My Life; and Then i Learned

The Value of Art; All the Colors of Emotions
That Make A River of Language Flow; Now i am
Practically The Energizer Bunny With or Without
Coffee Hehe; As i Realize Emotions Are What Make
The Potential of Human Imaginative Original Creative

In Focus

Most in
Flow Now

Possible at All...

They Really F'ed Up
When they Didn't

Teach Us

That Dance
And Song Free
iS A Way to Incredible
Human Potential Unleashed
And Released in Old Days School...

Has that Changed:

in A Word

No...

We Have Become
Machines More As
Cogs in a Machine
Than Ever Before...

Science Shows

This is Sadly
True too; Yet THere
Are Other Worlds Still
Breathing Living Poet Societies Still Now...

i've Been to the Valley and the Mountain Top; Humans are A Similar
Height EverywHere; It's Just Some Stand Taller Than Others, MaKinG DarK LiGHT.

And True Some Are Like Redwood Trees in Summer Wild Fires Now; Yes, They

Even Grow

Taller

Moving

Through Hell

to Other Side

Of Paradise on Earth Again...

LiGHT Returns out of DarK iS LiGHT..:)





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