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JimJohn
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19 Apr 2023, 4:09 pm

Lecia_Wynter wrote:

JimJohn wrote:

I am liking all of your points.

Thankyou.

Quote:

One of the obvious reasons an AR15 can do more damage than a hand gun is that it is a rifle. It has a much larger bullet than a handgun and you can shot something with accuracy from a mile away.

No the AR-15 has a much smaller bullet (both in weight and diameter) than a standard 9mm.

Quote:

Is an AR15 more deadly than a hunting rifle? That would depend on the size of the magazine and whether or not someone planned to roll around on the ground with it. It would also depend on the distance being shot from.

DPS is the most important factor for determining if a weapon is OP. For instance a bow and arrow is more deadly than a standard pistol but no mass shooter would choose it as their weapon of choice. Similarly a hunting rifle would be a low priority weapon.

Quote:

Rifles are extremely dangerous. That is because the bullet travels a long distance. But, there is nothing special with an AR15 bullet.

What is special about it is the AR-15 not the bullet. The bullet travelling a long distance is not why rifles are dangerous, it is just a consequence of it being dangerous. For instance a .22 can travel over a mile I think.

Quote:

As to your point about legalized prostitution helping incels, I just want to point out that an attitude change towards it could go just as far.

Prostitution is legal in many places. People are free to travel. The problem could be that incels are stupid or misguided. Like the saying goes, “You can’t fix stupid.”.

It seems like few people take advantage of prostitution where it is legal. There is something in people’s heads that stop them.

Perhaps, not everyone can sleep with another person at the drop of a hat. I don’t know.

Personsally, I took advantage of it but I have wondered why others do not. I thought it was the greatest thing since sliced cheese and still do. There is a bit of psychology going on behind the scenes motivating people to do this or that.

Essentially as long as prostitution is legal somewhere and people are free to travel, it is legal for someone if so inclined and not stupid.

That's quite an offensive thing to say. It would be like a Nazi saying that Jews were stupid for not leaving Germany, after all they had 7 years. When the main reason people do not leave countries that hate them is because of poverty. And I've met quite a few incels who actually have left the country to find prostitutes. Its not practical to expect all incels to leave a country permanently. And if enough incels leave then they now have to compete with other incels and the population becomes saturated. Like if all white men went to Thailand because Thai girls are easier, then white men there would start to lose value, the girls over there are easy for white men because the place isn't saturated with white people yet.

Quote:

That's a new scapegoat. Illegal prostitution.

It may be new but it should be obvious. A nation full of sexually frustrated males means more violence. In nations where prostitutes are legal there are much less mass shootings.

Quote:

Can't possibly be the whole more guns than people thing.. the one thing that sets the USA apart from all of the countries that this doesn't happen in.

It was far easier to get guns legally in the 60's without all the bureaucracy and red tape. The only thing that changed is the culture. Modern culture is the cause of shootings, guns are just a killing tool of convenience. And the main cause of the surge of AR-15 sales is because of gun control, people are buying AR-15s as a way to donate to the 2A political movement and to get them before its illegal.

Quote:

$Billion budget to pay veterans to guard schools instead of common sense gun control like the rest of the civilized world has that actually works. Crazy.

You are not the enemy. You probably believe in this "common sense gun control" notion of yours. But I know that is not their real goal. If I actually believed these politicians believed in common sense gun control then you'd have my support. But their real goal is probably total disarmament, such as the UK or Australia where pepperspray and nerf guns aren't allowed. And total disarmament may just be the beginning, a stepping stone, to pave the way for even more dystopian goals than that...

Quote:

It's the guns. It's always been the guns. It'll always be the guns. And until America accepts it and gets rid of a bunch of guns, it's citizens will continue to splatter each other and their kids all over the place.

And what about the people who splatter each other with cars? If you said to ban SUVs I'd unironically get behind you on that, SUVs are a blight on civilization...

Anyway, banning guns might make crime fighting even harder than before, who's to say these people won't just start poisoning foods at groceries or killing people with grenades and bombs?

One perceived fact you might want to reconsider is the narrative that more people go to Thailand for hookers than Europe.

Per capital my guess is there are more hookers in Germany than Thailand. People for example from France travel to Germany for hookers.

People buy into the idea that people go to Thailand because it is a poor country and like to think people are being exploited. Their narrative doesn’t fly when you factor in a G5 countries.

I kinda doubt you have been to the tourist areas of Thailand. There are many white people. A lot of them are from Australia, Europe and Russia. The Europeans, Australians, and Russians aren’t there for hookers. The hookers in bars don’t even consider themselves prostitutes. They are entertainers and hosts. There are just as many females and couples visiting the bars as males. It is more drinking and partying than prostitution.

Lots of people go to Brazil, Columbia, Costa Rica, Mexico, Dominican Republic. You could probably throw in there Canada but why bother. There really is no limit. Europeans don’t have to go as far. There is Spain, Austria, and so many more I don’t know.It is really unlimited. The whole prostitution is only in poor countries is a narrative of feminists. Prostitutes have actually told me people travel from everywhere to Germany. Dubai which is the richest country in the world is known for prostitution. They are also known for exploiting their workforce.

JimJohn
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19 Apr 2023, 7:09 pm

For anyone that thinks forks aren't dangerous, I dare them to stick one in their eye and tell me it isn't dangerous. I couldn't help myself. That right there is funny.

Lecia_Wynter
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20 Apr 2023, 8:42 am

goldfish21 wrote:

Lecia_Wynter wrote:

Quote:

This is nuts, IMO.

Because it's Possible to murder people in other ways, one of the easiest ways to murder people shouldn't be restricted. :lol:

:screwy:

I posit that it is actually easier to mass murder using motor vehicles than it is with guns. Have you heard of a game called Carmaggedon?

This is ridiculous. Cars are not the weapon of choice of mass murders. Guns are. It's POSSIBLE people could mass murder people with all sorts of other things that aren't weapons, so that must mean there should be no gun control measures in place to prevent mass murders by gun. Absolutely ridiculous argument. What in the NRA is going through your mind.. ?

And if leftists hypothetically ban all guns tomorrow, why do you think there won't just be a bunch of Carmaggedons happening all over?

And your main argument is that "gun control saves lives".

And as I said, "Ai driven cars save lives." And I'm not talking about "Carmaggedons" I'm talking about all the deaths and injuries from car crashes every year. A leftist robot making driving cars illegal would save lives indeed, but I would still oppose it. Because I don't want to live in an overly restrictive society where everyone is treated like 4 year olds that have no rights and aren't allowed to drive cars.

"But Elon's ai driven cars are glitchy"
I haven't read up the statistics, but I'm talking about a hypothetical future society where Elon's ai is improved to the point where its much safer than a human driver. A future where no doubt leftists would immediately try to ban human drivers in order to save lives. A future where humans are kept in a constantly infantile state, completely shielded from all forms of freedom and human nature.

Anyway, back to your argument that "gun control saves lives". I'm assuming you're not one of those unhinged zealots that actually wants to ban all guns or something.

My counter arguments are as follows:
- Assuming you were some sort of dictator and got your wish of "common sense gun control", it might actually save lives. People would still have the ability to use guns for self-defense.
- "Saving lives" shouldn't be the main argument. For instance you might want guns to end someone's life in self-defense.
- The problem is not you but the people who come after. They might claim they want "common sense gun control" but as merely a prelude, a stepping stone to total disarmament. And the total disarmament is but a mere stepping stone to other things, maybe forcing people to eat bugs and get microchips in their wrists. We (me and lil_hippie) explained this already to you.

goldfish21
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20 Apr 2023, 1:14 pm

Show me anywhere on the planet that has strict gun control laws and a high rate of carmageddons. No such place exists. To suggest that gun control leads to carmageddons is absurd.

One of the problems with American gun culture is that people have been sold the lie that guns protect you and make you safer and that everyone should have 1 or 3 for self defence. If that were true, the USA would be the safest place on the planet. Instead, all the guns - more guns than people - result in Way More shooting deaths. Hence gun violence now being the leading cause of death of children in the USA. America needs common sense gun control laws (red flag laws, background checks, restrictions on types of weapons, strict rules on storage and transport, training etc etc) as well as a cultural paradigm shift away from the lies of the NRA and gun industry lobbyists that have convinced people that black is white and up is down in the sense that more guns = safety when in reality more guns = more deaths by gun.

And if people continue to resist reality, as sad as it is that children and others die needlessly, y’all get what you deserve I suppose.

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Lecia_Wynter
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20 Apr 2023, 1:30 pm

goldfish21 wrote:

Show me anywhere on the planet that has strict gun control laws and a high rate of carmageddons. No such place exists. To suggest that gun control leads to carmageddons is absurd.

My argument is that those places would still have low amounts of mass murder with or without gun control.

In order to prove your argument, you'd need to show countries that had frequent amounts of mass shootings and then suddenly the mass shootings stopped immediately after draconian gun control measures.

Quote:

One of the problems with American gun culture is that people have been sold the lie that guns protect you and make you safer and that everyone should have 1 or 3 for self defence.

How do you explain the over 1.5 million self-defense gun uses (per year I think, could be every 10 years I forgot.)

Quote:

If that were true, the USA would be the safest place on the planet.

Incorrect. Another possibility is that the USA could be less safe than before.

Quote:

Instead, all the guns - more guns than people - result in Way More shooting deaths.

Again, shooting deaths are not the statistic you are looking for. Shooting criminals in self-defense would count as a shooting death and would be misleading to consider that as part of the data.

Quote:

Hence gun violence now being the leading cause of death of children in the USA. America needs common sense gun control laws (red flag laws, background checks, restrictions on types of weapons, strict rules on storage and transport, training etc etc) as well as a cultural paradigm shift away from the lies of the NRA and gun industry lobbyists that have convinced people that black is white and up is down in the sense that more guns = safety when in reality more guns = more deaths by gun.

And if people continue to resist reality, as sad as it is that children and others die needlessly, y’all get what you deserve I suppose.

I simply do not believe they would stop there. Probably the politicians wouldn't stop at "common sense gun control" and try to push for total disarmament. Then after that they would further enslave the population. I do not know why you seem to keep ignoring this. Do you really believe the Dems in charge would stop at "common sense gun control"? Do you really believe their end game is not total disarmament?

The Republicans and NRA pushed for a security budget for schools but the Dems in charge don't seem supportive. The budget would be to hire retired cops and veterans to defend schools, not arming teachers. If the dems in charge decide not to support it, it would probably because their long term goal is total disarmament and if suddenly, one day, there were no more shootings they'd have no rationale to ban guns.

goldfish21
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20 Apr 2023, 2:01 pm

You are wrong. Numbers never lie.

Every other country that has gun control laws and doesn’t have America’s gun violence & death problem are real world examples of all of these things working.

Most democrats, some independents, and even some republicans want changes to legislation to help stop people from being wasted at school, church, shopping malls etc. It doesn’t mean they’re pursuing some all or nothing solution of total disarmament. People with that ridiculous belief are standing in the way of reducing unnecessary deaths.

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Lecia_Wynter
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20 Apr 2023, 2:57 pm

goldfish21 wrote:

You are wrong. Numbers never lie.

Every other country that has gun control laws and doesn’t have America’s gun violence & death problem are real world examples of all of these things working.

What numbers? The over 1.5 million self-defense incidents where guns saved lives?

What evidence do you have (with charts) showing a before and after of draconian gun control rapidly decreasing the amount of mass incidents of a nation? You can't just say that countries with draconian gun control have less mass incidents. You have to imply a causation by showing charts that show a rapid decline in mass incidents immediately after draconian gun control measures.

Quote:

Most democrats, some independents, and even some republicans want changes to legislation to help stop people from being wasted at school, church, shopping malls etc. It doesn’t mean they’re pursuing some all or nothing solution of total disarmament. People with that ridiculous belief are standing in the way of reducing unnecessary deaths.

You misunderstand. I don't believe all democrats are in on it. I believe there is a specific Democrat agenda to achieve total disarmament. And they need total disarmament in order to fulfill their other agendas they have planned after that. And only some of the high ranking Democrats are privy to this.

goldfish21
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20 Apr 2023, 3:25 pm

Lecia_Wynter wrote:

goldfish21 wrote:

You are wrong. Numbers never lie.

Every other country that has gun control laws and doesn’t have America’s gun violence & death problem are real world examples of all of these things working.

Quote:

Australia. Mass shooting at a school, new gun restrictions, no more mass shootings at schools.

Guns don't save lives. They take lives. ER doctors & nurses save lives in the aftermath. Again, if guns saved lives the USA would be the safest place on Earth and people wouldn't be getting blown away daily. But because guns take lives, people be dyin'.

As for your conspiracy theories, sounds like some tinfoil hat man stuff to me:

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Lecia_Wynter
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20 Apr 2023, 6:35 pm

goldfish21 wrote:

Australia. Mass shooting at a school, new gun restrictions, no more mass shootings at schools.

There was just 1 shooting? Hardly scientific.

Quote:

Guns don't save lives. They take lives. ER doctors & nurses save lives in the aftermath. Again, if guns saved lives the USA would be the safest place on Earth and people wouldn't be getting blown away daily. But because guns take lives, people be dyin'.

Okay and as I said before, gun deaths are not the statistic you are looking for. If a criminal dies in a self-defense shooting that means guns didn't save lives and there are more gun deaths. In that instance guns not saving lives would be utopian and saving lives would be dystopian.

Quote:

As for your conspiracy theories, sounds like some tinfoil hat man stuff to me:

Imagine it being 2023 and people actually trust politicians.

goldfish21
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20 Apr 2023, 7:47 pm

Lecia_Wynter wrote:

goldfish21 wrote:

Australia. Mass shooting at a school, new gun restrictions, no more mass shootings at schools.

There was just 1 shooting? Hardly scientific.

Quote:

As for your conspiracy theories, sounds like some tinfoil hat man stuff to me:

Imagine it being 2023 and people actually trust politicians.

You asked for an example of a country that implemented strict gun controls that stopped mass shootings and I provided the most world famous example. Point: goldfish21.

Imagine if someone steals an apple to eat because they’re starving and they’re deemed a criminal so someone blows them away and somehow that gun related death is tallied as savings lives because ??? criminal ???

:screwy:

If you’re not going to discuss and debate with any sort of rational logical response why even bother typing?

Trolling is such a waste of everyone’s time.

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Lecia_Wynter
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21 Apr 2023, 7:09 am

goldfish21 wrote:

You asked for an example of a country that implemented strict gun controls that stopped mass shootings and I provided the most world famous example. Point: goldfish21.

No because no data statistician would use a data set that contains only one data point.

Quote:

Imagine if someone steals an apple to eat because they’re starving and they’re deemed a criminal so someone blows them away and somehow that gun related death is tallied as savings lives because ??? criminal ???

:screwy:

Cherry picked fictional scenario. Stand your ground laws do not make it legal to "shoot someone for stealing an apple on your lawn". Stand your ground only allows to shoot people who broke into your home illegally and are a threat.

Quote:

If you’re not going to discuss and debate with any sort of rational logical response why even bother typing?

Trolling is such a waste of everyone’s time.

Claiming that mistrust of politicians is equivalent to flat earth is the real trolling.

I would say its more like flat earth to trust politicians since there's overwhelming evidence that politicians are crooked, hunter biden scandal for instance and a million other things. Zelensky is crooked. Even JFK was crooked. Probably even Trump is crooked too. Most politicians are war criminals that bomb civilians but we are supposed to give up our guns to them in order to save civilians is the irony. If you still trust politicians then think you need more Russel Brand in your life.

Besides, its not a conspiracy when its not even hidden and out in the open. These people are pushing depopulation, you will eat ze bugs, you will own nothing and be happy. An armed population isn't going to willingly abandon all that they own to go live in ze podshares, hence disarmament would be required for obvious reasons.

Misslizard
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21 Apr 2023, 9:25 am

Americans have a mental problem with guns and violence.Sign of a sick society.
The Swiss do not.The Swiss have plenty of guns but rarely gun violence.
https://www.businessinsider.com/switzer ... 2018-2?amp

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goldfish21
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21 Apr 2023, 11:50 am

Lecia_Wynter wrote:

goldfish21 wrote:

You asked for an example of a country that implemented strict gun controls that stopped mass shootings and I provided the most world famous example. Point: goldfish21.

No because no data statistician would use a data set that contains only one data point.

Quote:

If you’re not going to discuss and debate with any sort of rational logical response why even bother typing?

Trolling is such a waste of everyone’s time.

Tinfoil tinfoil yadda yadda.

Ok, you like statistics? It isn't politicians or the federal government shooting everyone. It's mostly citizens shooting each other. Because of all the guns they have.

But if your conspiracy theories have any merit At All.. perhaps letting citizens have weapons of war is The Government's depopulation plan in action.. they've already got ya'll wasting kids in classrooms so they can't grow up and procreate. Gun slingin' citizens have been unwittingly convinced to depopulate the USA one pew pew pew at a time and you're all protesting for your right to participate in this!

Playing right into their hands and ya don't even know it..

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The_Walrus
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21 Apr 2023, 12:17 pm

Lecia_Wynter wrote:

goldfish21 wrote:

Show me anywhere on the planet that has strict gun control laws and a high rate of carmageddons. No such place exists. To suggest that gun control leads to carmageddons is absurd.

This is a really bad point to try and make, because it's one of the few things (along with suicides and obviously accidents) that we know gun control is good for.

Australia implemented gun control following the Port Arthur massacre in 1996. That was 27 years ago.

In the 27 years before Port Arthur, there were 16 mass shootings in Australia. There were a further 7 mass murders using vehicles, fire, or sharp or blunt objects.

In the last 27 years, there have been 12 mass murders in Australia, a reduction of 11 (nearly 50%). Three used guns, a reduction of 13.

For balance, another example is the UK. We implemented strict gun laws at the same time, also following a 1996 massacre. However, I think there is much less we can learn from this example, as unlike Australia, Great Britain (i.e. excluding Northern Ireland) did not have many mass shootings. We have also had much more terrorism than Australia - before Dunblane it was mostly related to the Northern Ireland troubles, afterwards it has been Islamist or (latterly) far-right terrorism. It is hard to say that the changes have had an impact here.

Mass shootings, yes, Australia suggests that gun control can reduce those. What gun control doesn't seem to do is to reduce the total number of murder victims in an appreciable way.

Quote:

I think "total disarmament" is hyperbolic, but I also think everyone who has ever advocated for "common sense gun control" has actually been advocating for something that only a minority of Americans would support. It's a dishonest turn of phrase. Although in fairness, I think "common sense" in any context is a dishonest turn of phrase.

goldfish21
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21 Apr 2023, 2:13 pm

I also think it's nuts to argue that there isn't an example of a country with multiple mass shootings daily (like the USA) that's then implemented some basic gun control laws that prevented them (because it's never happened in the history of the world, besides the Australia example/UK example etc but they were never so extreme) and so THAT's justification for the USA to never try any legislative measures to curb mass shootings and to just bow to the will of the NRA, gun lobby, and bought off politicians because Clearly it makes total sense to offer school children as sacrifices to the share prices of gun companies. :screwy:

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Lecia_Wynter
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26 Apr 2023, 5:39 pm

If you want to lower the amount of death toll then you shouldn't vote Democrat.

"Murder rates jump another 10% in the biggest US cities since 2021: Memphis, New Orleans, Richmond, and other Dem-led cities are nation's homicide hotspots, study shows"

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... hmond.html

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