[ OPINION ] Gen Zers Support Hamas's Slaughter of Israelis.

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MaxE
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26 Oct 2023, 5:37 am

Fnord wrote:
[i]An Insane Number of Gen Zers Support Hamas's Slaughter of Innocent Israelis | Opinion
By Brad Polumbo, October 24, 2023, at 11:54 AM EDT

This was published by Newsweek, but I don't think Newsweek deserves the respect it had before going digital. The presenter, a Log Cabin Republican, is really on the staff of the Examiner, a paper known for its extreme pro-Trump editorial policy. This guy seem to be all over the web and I would tend to think that piece is intentionally sensationalist even if based on actual events, so I would take it with a grain of salt.


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26 Oct 2023, 8:02 am

^ The author seems absolutely nuts. Nothing but inflated right wing talking points.


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28 Oct 2023, 8:18 pm

I don't understand the support that Gen Z has for Hamas. There are two paths to choose from. The path of peace and the path of war. Those jellyfish didn't have to bow down to Hamas and bomb Gaza. That's exactly what they are. Jellyfish.


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28 Oct 2023, 8:58 pm

Fnord wrote:
An Insane Number of Gen Zers Support Hamas's Slaughter of Innocent Israelis | Opinion
By Brad Polumbo, October 24, 2023, at 11:54 AM EDT

As the world continues to process the horrors of the October 7 Hamas terrorist attack on Israeli that left 1,300 dead and thousands more injured and the horrors of the ensuing war in Gaza, young Americans are coming to vastly different conclusions about the situation than... well, anyone else. A new Harvard-Harris poll asked Americans what they think about the Hamas-Israel conflict, and the results sharply diverged along generational lines.

Overall, Americans overwhelmingly support Israel over Hamas. A whopping 84 percent of respondents told pollsters they favored Israel, while just 16 percent favored Hamas. Among older Americans over 65, an astounding 95 percent supported Israel, and just 5 percent said their sympathies lie with Hamas.

But among young people age 18 to 24, things looked quite differently.  Just 52 percent of this group said they supported Israel, while 48 percent said they supported Hamas.

I notice that this poll seems to have had only two options: either you support Israel or you support Hamas.

There was no "I oppose the violence on both sides" option. Nor was there an option for "Hamas has some justified grievances, but they shouldn't be killing civilians or attacking things like music festivals."

I suspect that many people, of all ages, would have chosen one of these other options had they been available.


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29 Oct 2023, 1:25 pm

The implication that I am guilty of also is assuming that Gen Z breaking from the former near universal American acceptance of Israel's side is primarily driven by “woke indoctrination”. The concept that Jews are privileged white or white adjacent people oppressing Palestinian people of color. While I believe that is an important factor it is not the only one. As some have pointed out when the baby boomers grew up the Holocaust was recent. Israel was new and considered the underdog, the Arabs(Palestinian was not much of a concept then) were viewed as trying to finish what the Nazis started. That was a long time ago. Israel is the overdog. Another factor is one can see what bombing campaigns and sieges look like.

What is not talked about outside of xenophobic circles is that unlike in 1973 young people are in significant number are Palestinian/Arab/Muslim-Americans or immigrants. If they don’t have that background they know people who do have those backgrounds. It is natural to relate to people with similar backgrounds or friends with those backgrounds. One has to wonder if not wanting to be associated xenophobes is why this factor is ignored.


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Last edited by ASPartOfMe on 29 Oct 2023, 1:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

funeralxempire
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29 Oct 2023, 1:31 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
What is not talked about outside of xenophobic circles is that unlike in 1973 young people are in significant number are Palestinian/Arab/Muslim-Americans or immigrants. If they don’t have that background they know people who do have those backgrounds. It is natural to relate to people with similar backgrounds or friends with those backgrounds. One has to wonder if not wanting to be associated xenophobes is why this factor is ignored.


Is there a way to discuss that without sounding xenophobic or at the least like the goal is to use their background to invalidate their position?


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29 Oct 2023, 1:54 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
What is not talked about outside of xenophobic circles is that unlike in 1973 young people are in significant number are Palestinian/Arab/Muslim-Americans or immigrants. If they don’t have that background they know people who do have those backgrounds. It is natural to relate to people with similar backgrounds or friends with those backgrounds. One has to wonder if not wanting to be associated xenophobes is why this factor is ignored.


Is there a way to discuss that without sounding xenophobic or at the least like the goal is to use their background to invalidate their position?

It is an issue. We Jews have deal with the duel loyalty accusations. But is that a reason to deny Jews support Israel in high numbers because it is a Jewish state and that in 1973 most Americans related to Israel more because as Christians they believe the son of God was Jewish? It is a sign of immaturity not to be able understand that relating to one side does not make arguments supporting that side or the people making those arguments invalid.

People often note Gen Z’s diversity to buttress arguments in favor of progressive positions they agree with. There seems to be little worry about stereotyping them in a positive way.


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29 Oct 2023, 2:13 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
What is not talked about outside of xenophobic circles is that unlike in 1973 young people are in significant number are Palestinian/Arab/Muslim-Americans or immigrants. If they don’t have that background they know people who do have those backgrounds. It is natural to relate to people with similar backgrounds or friends with those backgrounds. One has to wonder if not wanting to be associated xenophobes is why this factor is ignored.


Is there a way to discuss that without sounding xenophobic or at the least like the goal is to use their background to invalidate their position?

It is an issue. We Jews have deal with the duel loyalty accusations. But is that a reason to deny Jews support Israel in high numbers because it is a Jewish state and that in 1973 most Americans related to Israel more because as Christians they believe the son of God was Jewish? It is a sign of immaturity not to be able understand that relating to one side does not make arguments supporting that side or the people making those arguments invalid.

People often note Gen Z’s diversity to buttress arguments in favor of progressive positions they agree with. There seems to be little worry about stereotyping them in a positive way.


It seems like that dual loyalty slander isn't reserved for Jews (or Jews and Catholics) anymore, which absolutely represents going in the opposite of the correct direction. :(


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29 Oct 2023, 2:42 pm

I'm just glad I don't live there. People on both sides must be absolutely terrified and that's an understatement because I can't think of strong enough words to do it justice. No one can compare themselves to what these people are going through unless they have been through it themselves, we only have moving pictures on news reports.

Polls are f*cking stupid anyway and some people just tick boxes and lie for shock value.

I don't know about what the majority off gen zedders think because I don't know the majority of gen zedders (that's how the British pronounce gen zedders BTW).


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30 Oct 2023, 11:32 pm

babybird wrote:
I'm just glad I don't live there. People on both sides must be absolutely terrified and that's an understatement because I can't think of strong enough words to do it justice.

My boyfriend's mother lives in Jerusalem, and I am worried for her safety.

But I think she's relatively safe. Israel has an excellent missile-defense system, the "Iron Dome." It's not 100% perfect, but Jerusalem is well-protected.

Things are MUCH, MUCH worse for the people of Gaza. According to Gaza Strip in maps: Life in Gaza under siege (BBC, "3 days ago"):

Quote:
In response to Hamas's attack on Israel on 7 October, Israel has established a "complete siege" of Gaza, with the Israeli defence minister declaring: "There will be no electricity, no food, no fuel."

The move immediately worsened the dire humanitarian situation in Gaza, where 80% of the population was already in need of international aid.

The UN agency providing shelter and humanitarian aid in Gaza has warned it may be forced to halt its operations if there are no further deliveries of fuel and other supplies.

And from Al Jazeera: ‘Our turn to die’: A Gaza blackout, the roar of Israeli jets and screams: "The absence of communications for 36 hours meant that families in Gaza couldn’t even call for help amid the bombing," by Mohammed R Mhawish, 30 Oct 2023.

Hopefully their communications have been restored, at least.


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31 Oct 2023, 12:07 pm

Makes sense to not want Palestinian civilians killed. Doesn't make sense to suggest hamas was in the right to kill Israelis.


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01 Nov 2023, 11:19 am

goldfish21 wrote:
Makes sense to not want Palestinian civilians killed. Doesn't make sense to suggest hamas was in the right to kill Israelis.


<<<<. ^^^AGREED^^^. >>>>


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01 Nov 2023, 2:11 pm

Dox47 wrote:
Barchan wrote:
>dead babies

Fake news, it's been three weeks and I've seen zero evidence that this is actually true, but this is the talking point that keeps getting thrown around by every Israel-sympathizer with a platform. This is just blood libel but for Arabs. I will condemn Hamas this very instant if -- and only if -- someone can show me definitive proof that Hamas are deliberately targeting children and/or infants.


As to your ridiculous demand:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... ck/675735/

Quote:
This afternoon, at a military base north of Tel Aviv, the Israel Defense Forces held a grisly matinee screening of 43 minutes of raw footage from Hamas’s October 7 attack. Members of the press were invited, but cameras were not allowed. Hamas had the opposite policy on cameras during the attack, which it documented gleefully with its fighters’ body cams and mobile phones. Some of the clips had been circulating already on social media in truncated or expurgated form, with the footage decorously stopped just before beheadings and moments of death. After having seen them both in raw and trimmed forms, I can endorse the decision to trim those clips. I certainly hope I never see any of the extra footage again.

It was, as IDF Major General Mickey Edelstein told the press afterward, “a very sad movie.” Men, women, and children are shot, blown up, hunted, tortured, burned, and generally murdered in any horrible manner you could predict, and some that you might not. The terrorists surround a Thai man they have shot in the gut, then bicker about what to do next. (About 30,000 Thais live in Israel, many of them farmworkers.) “Give me a knife!” one Hamas terrorist shouts. Instead he finds a garden hoe, and he swings at the man’s throat, taking thwack after thwack.

The audience gasped. I heard someone heave a little at another scene, this one showing a father and his young sons, surprised in their pajamas. A terrorist throws a grenade into their hiding place, and the father is killed. The boys are covered in blood, and one appears to have lost an eye. They go to their kitchen and cry for their mother. One of the boys howls, “Why am I alive?” and “Daddy, Daddy.” One says, “I think we are going to die.” The terrorist who killed their father comes in, and while they weep, he raids their fridge. “Water, water,” he says. The spokesman was unable to say whether the children survived.

The videos show pure, predatory sadism; no effort to spare those who pose no threat; and an eagerness to kill nearly matched by eagerness to disfigure the bodies of the victims. In several clips, the Hamas killers fire shots into the heads of people who are already dead. They count corpses, taking their time, and then shoot them again. Some of the clips I had not previously seen simply show the victims in a state of terror as they wait to be murdered, or covered with bits of their friends and loved ones as they are loaded into trucks and brought to Gaza as hostages. There was no footage of rape, although there was footage of young women huddling in fear and then being executed in a leisurely manner.

Edelstein said that the IDF chose to show the footage out of necessity. It is not every day that snuff films of Jews are shown at an IDF screening hall. (The original site of the screening was a commercial theater, which would have been even worse.) “What we shared with you,” Edelstein said, searching for words, “you should know it.” And he said he struggled to understand how some journalists could present the IDF and Hamas as comparable. This footage would refute that false equivalence.

“We are not looking for kids to kill them,” he said. “We have to share it with you so no one will have an idea that someone is equal to another.”

To me the most disturbing section was not visual at all. Like the clip of the father and his boys hunted in their pajamas, it was upsetting in part because it showed a relationship between parent and child. The clip is just a phone call—placed by a terrorist to his family back in Gaza. He tells his father that he is calling from a Jewish woman’s phone. (The phone recorded the call.) He tells his father that his son is now a “hero” and that “I killed 10 Jews with my own hands.” And he tells his family, about a dozen times, that they should open up WhatsApp on his phone, because he has sent photographs to prove what he has done. “Put on Mom!” he says. “Your son is a hero!”

His parents, I noticed, are not nearly as enthusiastic as he is. I believe that the mom says “praise be to God” at one point, which could be gratitude for her son’s crimes or pure reflex, indicating her loss for words to match her son’s unspeakable acts. They do not question what their son has done; they do not scold him. They tell him to come back to Gaza. They fear for his safety. He says, amid rounds of “Allahu akbar,” that he intends “victory or martyrdom”—which the parents must understand means that he will never come home. From their muted replies I wonder whether they also understand that even if he did come home, he would do so as a disgusting and degraded creature, and that it might be better for him not to.


The photos and videos, many of them uploaded by Hamas themselves, are readily available if you can stomach them, I'll not be providing any links.

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01 Nov 2023, 2:21 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:
Fnord wrote:
An Insane Number of Gen Zers Support Hamas's Slaughter of Innocent Israelis | Opinion
By Brad Polumbo, October 24, 2023, at 11:54 AM EDT

As the world continues to process the horrors of the October 7 Hamas terrorist attack on Israeli that left 1,300 dead and thousands more injured and the horrors of the ensuing war in Gaza, young Americans are coming to vastly different conclusions about the situation than... well, anyone else. A new Harvard-Harris poll asked Americans what they think about the Hamas-Israel conflict, and the results sharply diverged along generational lines.

Overall, Americans overwhelmingly support Israel over Hamas. A whopping 84 percent of respondents told pollsters they favored Israel, while just 16 percent favored Hamas. Among older Americans over 65, an astounding 95 percent supported Israel, and just 5 percent said their sympathies lie with Hamas.

But among young people age 18 to 24, things looked quite differently.  Just 52 percent of this group said they supported Israel, while 48 percent said they supported Hamas.

I notice that this poll seems to have had only two options: either you support Israel or you support Hamas.

There was no "I oppose the violence on both sides" option. Nor was there an option for "Hamas has some justified grievances, but they shouldn't be killing civilians or attacking things like music festivals."

I suspect that many people, of all ages, would have chosen one of these other options had they been available.

"You are either with us or you're with the terrorists." That was George W. Bush's line. That's always their line. Either you support American and Israeli aggression, or you're a "terrorist" and any crime against you can be justified.



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01 Nov 2023, 2:25 pm

Barchan wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
I'll not be providing any links.

"source: just trust me bro"


I think it's more of an 'I'm not providing links to human suffering, if you need them as proof find them yourself.' than trust me they exist. Besides, providing links to what you seek would probably be a rule break.


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01 Nov 2023, 2:36 pm

Recidivist wrote:
Barchan wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
I'll not be providing any links.

"source: just trust me bro"


I think it's more of an 'I'm not providing links to human suffering, if you need them as proof find them yourself.' than trust me they exist. Besides, providing links to what you seek would probably be a rule break.

Quote:
providing links to what you seek would probably be a rule break


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