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Atheism - Joseph Stalin’s Godless 5-year plan of 1928

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blitzkrieg
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28 Oct 2023, 1:45 pm

babybird wrote:
I have noticed a definite cultural difference in attitudes towards many things including religion.

And by the same token I'm sure the people of America enjoy making generalised assumptions about British/English people.

You don't really have to look very hard to see these differences and it's not even a criticism it's an observation.

I get defensive about this when people make assumptions about English people or when people from the south of England make sweeping generalisations about people from the north etc.

Sometimes we take things personal when we should just accept that this is just how it is and how it will always be.


Sometimes, general assumptions can be true, generally. There are always exceptions to any assumption, of course!


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TwilightPrincess
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28 Oct 2023, 1:46 pm

blitzkrieg wrote:
TwilightPrincess wrote:
I don’t make generalized assumptions about people because I realize that such assumptions often don’t depict reality.


Hmm, I think you are placing too much weight on the perceived generalized assumptions that you claim I have made or which are perhaps wrong, somehow.

I don’t think I am since they are one of the main points in your OP and since you reiterated them in the thread.


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blitzkrieg
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28 Oct 2023, 1:48 pm

TwilightPrincess wrote:
blitzkrieg wrote:
TwilightPrincess wrote:
I don’t make generalized assumptions about people because I realize that such assumptions often don’t depict reality.


Hmm, I think you are placing too much weight on the perceived generalized assumptions that you claim I have made or which are perhaps wrong, somehow.

I don’t think I am since they are one of the main points in your OP and since you reiterated them in the thread.


Okay then, TP.


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babybird
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28 Oct 2023, 2:13 pm

blitzkrieg wrote:
babybird wrote:
I have noticed a definite cultural difference in attitudes towards many things including religion.

And by the same token I'm sure the people of America enjoy making generalised assumptions about British/English people.

You don't really have to look very hard to see these differences and it's not even a criticism it's an observation.

I get defensive about this when people make assumptions about English people or when people from the south of England make sweeping generalisations about people from the north etc.

Sometimes we take things personal when we should just accept that this is just how it is and how it will always be.


Sometimes, general assumptions can be true, generally. There are always exceptions to any assumption, of course!


Yeah but some assumptions can be dangerous as well. But I don't think that saying American people seem to be more enthusiastic about atheism than English people is a dangerous assumption to make. Ricky Gervais makes millions of dollars out of American people due to his atheism. They love it.


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blitzkrieg
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28 Oct 2023, 2:19 pm

babybird wrote:
blitzkrieg wrote:
babybird wrote:
I have noticed a definite cultural difference in attitudes towards many things including religion.

And by the same token I'm sure the people of America enjoy making generalised assumptions about British/English people.

You don't really have to look very hard to see these differences and it's not even a criticism it's an observation.

I get defensive about this when people make assumptions about English people or when people from the south of England make sweeping generalisations about people from the north etc.

Sometimes we take things personal when we should just accept that this is just how it is and how it will always be.


Sometimes, general assumptions can be true, generally. There are always exceptions to any assumption, of course!


Yeah but some assumptions can be dangerous as well. But I don't think that saying American people seem to be more enthusiastic about atheism than English people is a dangerous assumption to make. Ricky Gervais makes millions of dollars out of American people due to his atheism. They love it.


That's true. There can be negative stereotypes and discrimination's arising from faulty assumptions.

But yes, you make a good point - I think it is fair to say that Americans seem more enthusiastic about atheism. It just seems so obvious when you are British person who has lived with British people who seem indifferent on the topic of religion (or atheism), whereas the U.S discourse is often more emotional and polarised, at least in news media.


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TwilightPrincess
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28 Oct 2023, 2:22 pm

^ Once again, you’ve not lived in America. You are basing your opinion on how you think it appears as a British citizen.


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babybird
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28 Oct 2023, 2:32 pm

Yeah that's right. People do base their opinions on how they see things to be. That's perfectly normal to me.

The people of America do seem to be more enthusiastic about atheism than the people of the UK.

Might not mean it's a true fact but that is how it seems to be.


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blitzkrieg
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28 Oct 2023, 2:50 pm

babybird wrote:
Yeah that's right. People do base their opinions on how they see things to be. That's perfectly normal to me.

The people of America do seem to be more enthusiastic about atheism than the people of the UK.

Might not mean it's a true fact but that is how it seems to be.


I agree, babybird.

The naysayers can think what they like, of course. :roll:

:D


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TwilightPrincess
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28 Oct 2023, 3:50 pm

It’s not about being a “naysayer” or thinking what one likes.

In terms of perspectives on specific issues, some people care more about subjective experience (i.e. how things “seem” to them) and emotion-based arguments. Others care more about objective reality and facts.


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28 Oct 2023, 10:15 pm

blitzkrieg wrote:
babybird wrote:
Yeah that's right. People do base their opinions on how they see things to be. That's perfectly normal to me.

The people of America do seem to be more enthusiastic about atheism than the people of the UK.

Might not mean it's a true fact but that is how it seems to be.


I agree, babybird.

The naysayers can think what they like, of course. :roll:

:D


Folks are more enthused about religion in the US than they are in the UK.

So it stands to reason that rebellious types would be more enthused about rebelling against religion in the US than in the UK. I dont see what Stalin has to do with it.



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28 Oct 2023, 10:34 pm

^ How would you define "rebellious?" What would make a person a "rebellious type" according to you?

I'm a critical thinker and a natural skeptic, but I'm not what I would consider "rebellious." Injustice in the Bible, in religion, and in the world are some of the first things that made me start questioning my beliefs as a 5-6 year old, and the doubts only multiplied as I got older. Morality, not rebellion, was always the core issue. Of course, everyone is different and has a different experience. My brother's journey was similar to mine, but it didn't happen until he reached adulthood and was going through tough times which led to a close examination of what he had always believed. It did not hold up to scrutiny.


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Last edited by TwilightPrincess on 28 Oct 2023, 11:20 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Mona Pereth
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28 Oct 2023, 10:54 pm

babybird wrote:
The people of America do seem to be more enthusiastic about atheism than the people of the UK.

To whatever extent that's true, it's probably because American atheists have more of a need to speak up about their atheism (at least sometimes), because there are proportionately fewer atheists in the U.S.A. than in the U.K., and because atheists in the U.S.A. (especially in the Bible Belt) have to put up with more religious fanatics shoving their religion in people's faces, both in-person and in politics. Atheists in the U.K. are more likely to have the luxury of being able to their atheism for granted.


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Last edited by Mona Pereth on 28 Oct 2023, 11:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

TwilightPrincess
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28 Oct 2023, 11:09 pm

In 2019, 4% of Americans said they were atheist and 5% said they were agnostic. The numbers could be a little higher due to perceived stigma related to having a minority viewpoint, but it's probably not drastically different. Of course, the numbers are probably a bit higher in 2023 but, once again, probably not drastically different.

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads ... -atheists/

In 1981, 75% of Britons said they believed in God but that figure has dropped to below half (49%) in 2022.

https://www.kcl.ac.uk/policy-institute/ ... ligion.pdf


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babybird
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29 Oct 2023, 2:13 am

Mona Pereth wrote:
babybird wrote:
The people of America do seem to be more enthusiastic about atheism than the people of the UK.

To whatever extent that's true, it's probably because American atheists have more of a need to speak up about their atheism (at least sometimes), because there are proportionately fewer atheists in the U.S.A. than in the U.K., and because atheists in the U.S.A. (especially in the Bible Belt) have to put up with more religious fanatics shoving their religion in people's faces, both in-person and in politics. Atheists in the U.K. are more likely to have the luxury of being able to their atheism for granted.


Yes that's what I'm talking about. It wasn't a criticism on my part. It was an observation.


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babybird
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29 Oct 2023, 3:45 am

TwilightPrincess wrote:
In 2019, 4% of Americans said they were atheist and 5% said they were agnostic. The numbers could be a little higher due to perceived stigma related to having a minority viewpoint, but it's probably not drastically different. Of course, the numbers are probably a bit higher in 2023 but, once again, probably not drastically different.

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads ... -atheists/

In 1981, 75% of Britons said they believed in God but that figure has dropped to below half (49%) in 2022.

https://www.kcl.ac.uk/policy-institute/ ... ligion.pdf


Ok so now I understand our misunderstanding. I'm talking about the enthusiasm within the individual atheist. Not the enthusiasm within an entire country.

Of course I can see there is more atheism in the UK. It's just that we don't shout about it as individuals as loud as those individual atheists in the USA.


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29 Oct 2023, 4:57 am

TwilightPrincess wrote:
^ Once again, you’ve not lived in America. You are basing your opinion on how you think it appears as a British citizen.

Just delete the word "rebelious" from my sentence. The meaning wouldnt change.

In the US Bible Belt non Belief is a novelty. In the UK belief is a novelty. Thats my point. You dont declare your belief that "water is wet". But if you became convinced of the unorthodox belief that water...was somehow NOT wet...then you might feel the need to...share that discovery with your peers ...who are still mired in error.