Why I don't like the Wicca movement

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funeralxempire
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23 Dec 2023, 7:19 pm

RedDeathFlower13 wrote:

funeralxempire wrote:

RedDeathFlower13 wrote:

I do have a nurse practioner who I talk to every few months about my medications. I guess it won't hurt to ask her about this...

Absolutely. Hopefully she'll have good insight into how to strike a healthy balance between maintaining an interest that means a lot to you, without having it harm your mental health.

I certainly hope so...

The thing is I do like my playing cards. And the whole history of the cartomancy thing is fascinating to me.

Maybe she can help me keep the interest but on a healthier level like you said?

I hope so. That seems like a lot less of a disruption, compared to trying to force yourself to not be interested with those topics.

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goldfish21
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24 Dec 2023, 7:08 am

RedDeathFlower13 wrote:

TwilightPrincess wrote:

Wicca is more popular than some might think and the movement is growing.

Quote:

The number of witches and Americans practicing Wicca religious rituals increased dramatically since the 1990s, with several recent studies indicating there may be at least 1.5 million witches across the country. A Trinity College study conducted in 1990 estimated only about 8,000 Wiccans in the U.S., but the increase has been led by a rejection of mainstream Christianity among young Americans as well as a rise in occultism.

With 1.5 million potential practicing witches across the U.S., witchcraft has more followers than the 1.4 million mainline members of the Presbyterian church.

https://www.newsweek.com/witchcraft-wic ... on-1221019

This is from 2018, so there might be even more now.

It is a very widespread movement contrary to what goldfish seems to think. Maybe not for people who are not into it or against the idea of witchcraft. But it's become an increasingly popular movement especially among young people who are using it to rebel against Christiainity (hell that was one reason why I got into it as a teenager plus I was heavily influenced by movies like "The Craft" as a kid in the 90's).

Perhaps its not as popular in Canada as it is in the UK and The States? I dunno...

Growth from 8k to 1.5M over 33 years is fairly substantial.. But, 1.5M/332.3M = 0.45% of the US population. That's not very high. More than it used to be, but with less than 1/2 a percent of the population I wouldn't exactly consider it a "wide spread movement," nor membership very commonplace. It's less than 1 in 200 people. It's still a pretty niche religion in the grand scheme of things.

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Mona Pereth
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24 Dec 2023, 12:39 pm

goldfish21 wrote:

As I explained in more detail here, I don't think RedDeathFlower13's point pertained to "the grand scheme of things," but rather to the relative dominance of Wicca and Wicca-based neo-Paganism, compared to other forms of neo-Paganism, occultism, magic(k), etc.

And, yes, Wicca and Wicca-based neo-Paganism do get occasional mass media coverage. (See examples linked in my above-linked post. Many more examples can be easily found via Google.)

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RedDeathFlower13
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24 Dec 2023, 12:42 pm

Doesn't really matter to me anymore anyways. I'm kinda done with the occult because I realize it's not a healthy obsession for someome with both mania and psychosis like myself...

But I may try to stick with reading my cards though. It's just a nice hobby to pass the time...

Provided I can train my brain to not get too consumed by things like lenormand and tarot.

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NibiruMul
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24 Dec 2023, 3:00 pm

While I'm not Wicca, I actually see it as harmless, and I feel like the media tends to misrepresent it as some kind of "evil" religion. It's actually a lot more accepting than many mainstream religions in terms of things like LGBT rights and ordination of women. I've read that a sizable portion of Wicca converts are female because Wicca lets women be priestesses and take active roles in ceremonies. It also doesn't have a history of violence like many other faiths do. If anything, they've been unfairly scapegoated because most mainstream people don't know much about Wicca.

Mona Pereth
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24 Dec 2023, 3:43 pm

RedDeathFlower13 wrote:

Doesn't really matter to me anymore anyways. I'm kinda done with the occult because I realize it's not a healthy obsession for someome with both mania and psychosis like myself...

Many Wiccan and other occult leaders themselves have recognized that their practices aren't necessarily good for everyone's mental health. It's fine for some people but not everyone.

RedDeathFlower13 wrote:

But I may try to stick with reading my cards though. It's just a nice hobby to pass the time...

Provided I can train my brain to not get too consumed by things like lenormand and tarot.

One possibly good thing about card-reading, for you:

I've noticed that, in your card-reading posts, you seem a lot calmer and less prone to rigid, categorical thinking than you seem to be in quite a few of your other posts.

So perhaps the card-reading, as long as you don't take it too seriously, might actually be good for your mental health?

Last edited by Mona Pereth on 24 Dec 2023, 3:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Mona Pereth
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24 Dec 2023, 3:56 pm

NibiruMul wrote:

Agreed. It was one of the first modern Western religions to allow women in leading roles. Also, despite Gardner's homophobia, it became one of the first religions to welcome LGBTQ+ people.

Christians are still split on these issues.

NibiruMul wrote:

It also doesn't have a history of violence like many other faiths do. If anything, they've been unfairly scapegoated because most mainstream people don't know much about Wicca.

Yep.

old_comedywriter
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24 Dec 2023, 4:09 pm

Wicca seems to be the opposite of most religions - its followers are better than the "leader".

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RedDeathFlower13
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24 Dec 2023, 4:12 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:

RedDeathFlower13 wrote:

But I may try to stick with reading my cards though. It's just a nice hobby to pass the time...

Provided I can train my brain to not get too consumed by things like lenormand and tarot.

That's a good point. I'm not sure what it is about trying to read world events through cards but I do seem less erratic I guess? They are calming in a way and help me think of situations in ways I don't normally. Like I feel less reactive to all the political stuff.

Maybe in a weird way it filters all the political turmoil? I'm not sure how to explain it...

I just know for the past few years collecting and reading playing cards has given me an alternative hobby to things like video games and TV. I might as well stick with it.

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RedDeathFlower13
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24 Dec 2023, 4:19 pm

NibiruMul wrote:

It also doesn't have a history of violence like many other faiths do. If anything, they've been unfairly scapegoated because most mainstream people don't know much about Wicca.

While Wicca itself may not be violent (it's too young of a religion to have the poor track record Christiainity does), the thing is that these "pagan" religions that they try to incorporate into their beliefs were pretty violent in the past and many enganged in actual human sacriface.

That's another criticism of not just wicca but neo-paganism in general. It doesnt really resemble what actual paganisn was about (for obvious reasons as human sacriface is now frowned on in most places).

The Norse Vikings and even the Ancient Greeks all ingaged in human sactiface and violent wars. As did my Hawaiian ancestors too before they were converted to Christiainity.

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RedDeathFlower13
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24 Dec 2023, 4:32 pm

Also to be honest I find the concept of "Goddess Worship" interesting because it's popular among feminism but when you actually research the myths of so many ancient female deities worshipped around the world the majority of them were painted in a rather sexist light.

Most of these Goddesses like Inanna, Hera, Venus, Diana, 'Lilith', etc were all portrayed as insanely petty, jealous, and irrational. Many were admired purely for their physical beauty by worshippers in the past and their abilities to be earthly mother figures and not much else, and many were portrayed as pretty terrible mothers and dangerous lovers who led men to trouble too.

If I were a woman to be honest I would find some of these traits pretty insulting, when I stop to think about it.

In fact I think that's precisely why my mom and sister would get so annoyed with me when I would start obsessing on goddesses...

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RedDeathFlower13
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25 Dec 2023, 5:54 pm

You guys want to know something embaressing? My mom got me a handcarved Lilith statue made of solid wood from Ukraine (the same country being torn apart by Russian invaders).

How embaressing... :oops:

But it's REALLY nice actually! Oh well... worship the dark forces if you got the dark forces on your side I guess. :skull:

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Tim_Tex
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25 Dec 2023, 6:09 pm

goldfish21 wrote:

RedDeathFlower13 wrote:

What bothers me about Wicca is that it has now dominated the internet and the media to the point that everyone now believes that this is what witchcraft really is.

I haven't seen much of anything on the internet or media about Wicca or witchcraft. I'm sure it's on the internet If You Look For It, but I don't think it's dominating the internet.. and certainly not the media - where I can't recall ever hearing/seeing it mentioned. Satanism has been in the news a few times over the last few years due to a new satanic church starting after school programs for kids that faux news is having faux outrage over, but I can't recall anything about Wicca or witchcraft in the news ever.. not even around halloween time.

Anyways, never heard of the guy but he sounds like a jerk who was full of himself. He's dead and not a household name, so, whatever - he can't have made that large of impression on society.

I'm assuming you're referring to the Satanic Temple--not really Satanic, mainly just a legal defense group for secularists.

The Church of Satan (Anton Lavey's group) is the real deal, though.

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RedDeathFlower13
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25 Dec 2023, 6:40 pm

Lilith seems to fall in-between Satanism and Neopaganism as I've met people on both sides who worship her. Yet many don't seem to actually understand her at all.

The only person I've met onlinevwho seems to actually grasp that there's more to her than what the Alphabet of Ben Sira claims is the lady who runs this website called Library of Lilith. She's done her research.

https://libraryoflilith.com/

Also I really enjoy this video by a Jewish Scholar who studies the occult from a scholarly perspective.

https://youtu.be/n1EKccz4fS0?si=ETjgJiEEXOyCMKCl

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Mona Pereth
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25 Dec 2023, 7:08 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:

I'm assuming you're referring to the Satanic Temple--not really Satanic, mainly just a legal defense group for secularists.

The Church of Satan (Anton Lavey's group) is the real deal, though.

"Real deal" in what sense?

There are many different kinds of Satanism.

The Church of Satan, like the Satanic Temple, is atheistic and interprets Satan as a symbol.

RedDeathFlower13
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25 Dec 2023, 7:19 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:

Tim_Tex wrote:

I'm assuming you're referring to the Satanic Temple--not really Satanic, mainly just a legal defense group for secularists.

The Church of Satan (Anton Lavey's group) is the real deal, though.

"Real deal" in what sense?

There are many different kinds of Satanism.

The Church of Satan, like the Satanic Temple, is atheistic and interprets Satan as a symbol.

There's also Luciferian Witches who view Lucifer as a real entity and think Lilith is his mate.

Even though according to actual Jewish Foklore Lilith was wed to the archangel Samael.

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals ... 44C0C92A19

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