The War in Iraq...

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Clinton almost got impeached for getting a blowjob and lying about it. Bush is busy starting WW3, and doesn't give a flying f*ck what the people think. As far as I'm concerned, Bush is on a massive ego/power-trip and is hardly doing whats best for the country.

I'll never forget what he said, "You're either with us, or you're with the terrorists."

Well, then, I guess I'm with the terrorists. Because I certainly am not with the overdressed chimpanzee known as Dubya.

People, if you read as deeply into this stuff as I have, you'd be shocked. Jello Biafra also makes a wonderful argument on the subject. Open up a file sharing program and search for some of his stuff sometime. You won't be disappointed.

Addendum to what I said before:

Bush is what many would call a "neo-conservative". I've said before that neocons scare me. Why? because Bush is trying to push the "american way" on the rest of the world.

Don't blame us all for Bush, a LOT of us detest him and his laughable foreign policy.

is "kill people and take their stuff" in and of itself a foreign policy?

It's like watching Hamsters on a Treadmill....Bush is good...Bush is Bad.... I hate Bush...America is this..>America is that... Bush should have...Bush should not have...


As far as your 'gathering knowledge is concerned' I give you this:

'the great H. L. Mencken, who wrote in The American Mercury for April 1924 that the aim of public education is not

to fill the young of the species with knowledge and awaken their intelligence. ... Nothing could be further from the truth. The aim ... is simply to reduce as many individuals as possible to the same safe level, to breed and train a standardized citizenry, to put down dissent and originality. That is its aim in the United States... and that is its aim everywhere else. '

Looks like he's right

Katze

Actually, when it comes to issues I feel strongly about, I send letters to my senators and governor. So I can't say that I sit and do nothing.[/quote]




Ohhh, good.. that's OK then, at least you are doing 'something'. Senators and Governors have a special file for your kinds of letters and Emails, they are labelled:
Kiss my A*s.

Heart on Fire


Katze

i think it's not really terribly helpful to criticise if people are at least trying. suggesting other, potentially more productive ways for them to be active is more profitable, isn't it? and every little helps - i'd rather people do something than be told what they're doing is useless.

like running in circles thinking they are getting somewhere? It is up to you to be 'profitable and find productive ways to be active' (sounds like corporate brainwashing to me- God help your Students if you are really a Teacher) if that is how you create your reality. It is not up to me to find ways for you to do so. I think people here are intelligent enough to find their own ways of expression nor do they need your protection.

There is a phenomena called 'useless effort'

Thanks MUM

Katze

Clinton was impeached for perjury in front of a federal grand jury in a law suit accusing he sexually harassed subordinate state employees while Governor of Arkansas. The testimony he (falsely) submitted regarding relationships with subordinate female employees of the White House was solicited to show pattern evidence (that he has a habit of doing this) so to more easily prove the charge leveled against him. He purjured himself, was disbarred, and then impeached. His own fault.

"You're either with us, or you're with the terrorists."... In life and death contests, this is entirely true. After all, if you remember correctly, they are trying to kill us.



I see.



Actually, I think you are swayed by emotions more than anything else. Particularly hatred. It is curious where you lay your hatred. Does the fighting man scare you?

personal attacks are unnecessary, katze, and not acceptable on this board.

please do take issue with what people say, but not with the individuals themselves.

i am not saying this as a Moderator, as i am replying to a comment which involves me personally, but this is part of the forum guidelines.

and i don't feel the urge to "defend" either my professionalism, or my capabilities.

Last edited by vetivert on 07 Dec 2005, 3:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

I really never did understand the irrational hatred leveled at Bush. Other than bringing Democracy to Afghanistan and now democracy to Iraq, I never could figure out his 'crimes'. Similar to what the American crimes against France and Belgium were in WWII? Freeing them?

It's all quite irrational. It seems reminiscent of the child rebelling against the father of the family. The father who yields the gun to kill those attempting to kill his family. All in the meanwhile the children are tugging at his shirt, kicking him, and cursing his name while he stands guard, waiting and watching for greater danger. What can he do with the children when they cheer the bandit on from afar? He certainly cannot strike out at them, but rather must tolerate their silliness yet again.

You Europeans should really 'grow up' in your views on defense and war. As if WWII and the Cold War were not satisfactory lessons. This is the real world - fight or die.

You just did defend yourself, you just don't see it.

I guess it's OK to rubbish Bush and launch personal attacks against his character and personality even though he is not participating on this Forum, most of them based on hearsay and assumptions but you take exception at someone expressing a personal opinion about you? What are you proposing? Double standard morality?

Let me say this before leaving: Kicking a dead carcass called 'Bush' around is not something I would call productive or useful, sets a bad example and is not something I care for and I am surprised that you seem to condone this. This is the sport of cowards and the domain of cheap shots since he is not there to defend himself, but I guesss you would call it 'fun'. At least it lets you off the hook of looking at yourself.

From this Forum I expect a lively discussion, I expect to question your assumptions and challenge your opinions, and I expect the same from you, otherwise what's the point of a Forum? I will offer criticism where warranted and I will expect the same from you. If your expectations are to silence criticism and conformity to some kind of limiting structure then I no longer willing to be part of this Forum.

I would hope that I am mature enough to take personal criticism, it would really be cause for further self questioning if I were unable to accept your feedback. After all, my opinions are only just that, they may be incorrect and subjective, nevertheless they need to be expressed if they are to be tested to see if they hold water or not.

If not then I would really have to look at the cause within myself, but I would not allow myself to stifle, suppress or silence anyone who would do so.



Katze

apart from your first two paragraphs (which i'll come to in a bit) i entirely agree with everything you said in the above post, Katze.

i'm sorry if i didn't explain myself properly. i was referring to the board guidelines, which state:

"Personal attacks, which include insinuation, ridicule and personal insults, regardless of whether direct or indirect, are not allowed on the forums."

the full guidelines are found here:

http://www.wrongplanet.net/modules.php? ... 19&start=0

this isn't censorship, but courtesy.

as for Bush - well, he is a public figure. by stepping into the public arena, one accepts that one is open to publice commentary about one's public life. whether or not commentary on one's private life has any moral or, indeed, relevant basis is another point for discussion altogether - i'm still thinking about that one, personally. Bush also affects the lives of most people on this planet, even we who didn't vote for him. so yes - i DO believe i have a right to an opinion about him, his decisions, and his actions. and i have the right to express those opinions. apart from anything else, as you yourself pointed out, anything anyone as paltry in significance to Bush as us poor mortals here has to say, has little more effect on him other than your reference to the osculum obscaenum. we can shout our heads off as much as we want - i doubt he'll lose any sleep about it.

It is ridiculous, the only thing we are doing there is wasting our time killing innocent people over oil.

What oil? We have hardly gotten any from Iraq and we are getting it at a loss.

ruveyn

You really think the US will have its national corporations owning oil fields in Iraq?
Makes it too damn obvious.
The oil cartels have no nationality. The US corporation has many cooperators/accomplices.


The loss? What loss? The debt would be paid by American slaves(at least that is what the State expects as this is what has happened with all the other wars the US citizens financed).

And the deaths of US military thugs help the American people support more war(O the martyrs).
The death of the Iraqis clear out the middle east of Arabs. Jews need their "greater Israel" [sarcasm]or did you think God just gave them Palestine?[/sarcasm]. Iraq's population purge leaves nothing but the traitors and the cowards alive. That same process was carried out in South America(Operation Condor).
Powerful nations go in, kill the ones resisting and install their puppets.
US "foreign aid" is exactly that. Money to support the puppet regimes of the 3rd world.

Epic necro.