Americans have no right to vote for a President

Page 4 of 6 [ 82 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

Fred2670
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 20 Mar 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 305
Location: USA

04 Apr 2008, 7:46 pm

I want to revise what I said about Americans
not having a right to vote for their President.

They should have a vote, but so should every
man woman and child in every other country.
(Free countries that do not support terrorism)

When the action of the American President
"the leader of the free world" effects the lives
of so many people globally, it becomes their
business. This supersedes our sovereignty,


_________________
ALT+F4=Life


Awesomelyglorious
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Dec 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,157
Location: Omnipresent

04 Apr 2008, 7:48 pm

Fred2670 wrote:
They should have a vote, but so should every
man woman and child in every other country.
(Free countries that do not support terrorism)
Why? We do not belong to them.
Quote:
When the action of the American President
"the leader of the free world" effects the lives
of so many people globally, it becomes their
business. This supersedes our sovereignty,

Sure, it may be their business, but it is our country.



Fred2670
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 20 Mar 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 305
Location: USA

04 Apr 2008, 8:09 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
Why? We do not belong to them.


The planet does, and when our actions abroad
can influence drastic changes in their lives, their
opinion on our course as a nation becomes valid.

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
Sure, it may be their business, but it is our country.


A narrowminded and somewhat arrogant view.
Again you need to see the bigger picture and
come to terms with it.


_________________
ALT+F4=Life


Awesomelyglorious
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Dec 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,157
Location: Omnipresent

04 Apr 2008, 8:53 pm

Fred2670 wrote:
The planet does, and when our actions abroad
can influence drastic changes in their lives, their
opinion on our course as a nation becomes valid.

Why?

Quote:
A narrowminded and somewhat arrogant view.
Again you need to see the bigger picture and
come to terms with it.

No, not narrowminded or arrogant. It is the technically correct view. Whether or not it is their business, it is still our nation. Disputing that is disputing facts. The issue is that you are arguing that we should run our nation in a different manner, but you cannot deny that the nation is ours.



Fred2670
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 20 Mar 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 305
Location: USA

04 Apr 2008, 9:11 pm

not only is the nation ours but so is the obligation,
as a nation with such power, to the rest of the world.

when what we do on our own behalf adversely affects
them.. not only are we reponsible for the damages, but
also a resolution that will take their concerns into account
and include them in any future decision making process.

Such a process would make available to them, but not
be limited to, participation in the United States
Presidential elections


_________________
ALT+F4=Life


Awesomelyglorious
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Dec 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,157
Location: Omnipresent

04 Apr 2008, 9:34 pm

Fred2670 wrote:
not only is the nation ours but so is the obligation,
as a nation with such power, to the rest of the world.
Why does power oblige us to do anything? I could be the world's greatest athlete but I sure as heck don't have to become batman.

Quote:
when what we do on our own behalf adversely affects
them.. not only are we reponsible for the damages, but
also a resolution that will take their concerns into account
and include them in any future decision making process.

Why?



skafather84
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,848
Location: New Orleans, LA

04 Apr 2008, 10:19 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
Fred2670 wrote:
not only is the nation ours but so is the obligation,
as a nation with such power, to the rest of the world.
Why does power oblige us to do anything? I could be the world's greatest athlete but I sure as heck don't have to become batman.

Quote:
when what we do on our own behalf adversely affects
them.. not only are we reponsible for the damages, but
also a resolution that will take their concerns into account
and include them in any future decision making process.

Why?



you're wasting your time with this one. let him wallow in his ignorance like a pig in its own waste.



Awesomelyglorious
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Dec 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,157
Location: Omnipresent

04 Apr 2008, 10:23 pm

skafather84 wrote:
you're wasting your time with this one. let him wallow in his ignorance like a pig in its own waste.

How am I ignorant, pray tell?



skafather84
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,848
Location: New Orleans, LA

04 Apr 2008, 10:44 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
you're wasting your time with this one. let him wallow in his ignorance like a pig in its own waste.

How am I ignorant, pray tell?



him, you w*k...not you.



Awesomelyglorious
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Dec 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,157
Location: Omnipresent

04 Apr 2008, 11:17 pm

skafather84 wrote:
him, you w*k...not you.

Oh.... ok. Whew! that is a load off of my back! :D



gekitsu
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Apr 2007
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 693
Location: bavaria/germany

05 Apr 2008, 3:45 am

raggie:
i still dont think the holocaust analogy holds true for a comparison with 9/11.
for one, as sora pointed out, the PR situation was entirely different. 60 years ago, information (and thus, opinion-forming) wasnt as global a thing as it is today, and its not all that much of a task to first deride a minority and declare them to be of lower value, and afterwards secretly butcher them away (while the common population has enough trouble with family members at war, food rationalization, war efforts, etcetera).
9/11 was, from our point of view, a minority strike against "the right order", read: "us". the "us" of today being significantly larger than the german populations "us" 60 years ago...

and honestly... the resulting action of 9/11 had exactly one success, which was getting the taliban out of afghanistan. its up to armies with a proper plan to try keeping peace down there. the attack on iraq was pretty much without any connection to the declared war on terrorism - why attack a secular country that, albeit a dictatorial regime, is as much on the list of fundamentalist terrorists as the united states are?
id say that although the american counterstrike was masked under a load of pretend rightness, ideals and w*king liberty around, in the end, it had much of a simple revenge strike. he hurt me, im gonna hurt him. period.

see, im not against you liking your country - i like where i come from, too. and there are plenty of reasons for both of us. i really just dont buy into american superiority... great things happened in america (heck, id sure like donuts were more easily accessible over here) but not all and everything is golden over there, either.
you have a point of lauding those ideals of freedom and stuff... but why still reside in a stone-age version of pretend-democracy? why accept a legislature that forces a moral point upon its citizens instead of providing them a basic framework to live by their own (free!) moral points? why still attempt to force your ideas of statebuilding upon others? theres not much ring to the melting pot thing, when you make it a melting pot imperialism. (very much the behaviour we critizise NTs doing, by the way)



slowmutant
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 13 Feb 2008
Age: 47
Gender: Male
Posts: 8,430
Location: Ontario, Canada

05 Apr 2008, 7:38 am

snake321 wrote:
Sora wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
By contrast, most of Germany's citizens zombied right through the Holocaust. They couldn't be bothered to realize that Hitler was killing their nation, and dooming its people to their post-war status of economic collapse and forced reparations to those nations and peoples they had invaded and killed for the sole purpose, as Hitler saw it, of world domination and genocide.


Why this was possible, why the majority didn't stand and resist was because the way Nazis established themselves was, sadly, extremely 'brilliant' -

as in strategic use of financials, psychological tools and propaganda, alongside with other means of manipulation.

A huge part of their success is attributed to the shielding and choking of an emotional response.

Crashing planes to kill off thousands isn't very 'brilliant' on the other side. It's not manipulative (unless you want an insert reaction of revenge). It's stupid, outrageous, horrible and everyone all over the world was struck in front of the TV.

The emotional response was 1. immediate and 2. enormous.

9/11 and the Holocaust have no common ground, sorry.

Except maybe one thing. That both are horrible in a way that words cannot describe them.




On another note...

I want to remain European. Not become 'US'. Europe has its own identity by a long history. Although the European forget this out of this very same history. Ours was never a pride of many, it's a shame.


Wrong, 9/11 was our reichstag fire, they big boys had talked about needing another Pearl Harbor. Enter 9/11. In fact, even going further back, the president at the time (I believe it was Einsenhower) knew Pearl Harbor was gonna go down. They've even admitted to this on the history channel.


I'm sick of hearing about your "big boys." Who are these big boys snake? And how do you who they are if they're so clandestine? I'm calling you out on this one. Put up or shut up.



Cyanide
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Sep 2006
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,003
Location: The Pacific Northwest

05 Apr 2008, 3:26 pm

I certainly hope you're joking, but I have a feeling you're not.



MR_BOGAN
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 Mar 2008
Age: 126
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,479
Location: The great trailer park in the sky!

05 Apr 2008, 4:12 pm

Dumb post. :doh:



Ragtime
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Nov 2006
Age: 47
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,927
Location: Dallas, Texas

05 Apr 2008, 5:22 pm

Fred2670 wrote:
When met with resistance, instead pursuing some form of understanding, you switched to hollow points. How very American of you.

It doesnt matter where either of us is from. If you think your "birth right" affords you the luxury of supporting oppressive nationalism disguised as American patriotism, you are misguided.

It is time the states, and those subscribing to your particular mindset, come to grips with the fact that America is nothing more than a single spoiled member of the world community.

How typical of the US to propose the League of Nations and then fail to support it claiming to be above it.


Well, I'm just glad you're showing more of your true colors now. That's the outcome of my successful argumentation -- getting you to reveal yourself. :)



Fred2670
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 20 Mar 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 305
Location: USA

07 Apr 2008, 2:41 am

I will wrap this up and thats it Im done.
Truthfully dont care what any of you arrogant
American "Us before the world" types think anyway.
You are the reason the rest of the world hates America.

Like it or not, deny it or not, The United States is the capital of the world. Did you think it would be France? As the first world state America will not isolate itself from the concerns of the other world nations and will instead begin the evolution of the worldwide conscience by leading these nations into the future. As America begins to share the concerns of other countries and takes part in their affairs for either good or bad, our commitment to them and our partnership with them becomes magnified and will eventually be one involving a shared government. The time has come to begin the framework that will ultimately allow these countries to vote in our Presidential elections. Any sentiment contrary to this is oblivious to the true nature of the world beyond our borders and rooted in either democratic or republican power hungry greed.

Thats it
You are either capable of
seeing the big picture or you are not


_________________
ALT+F4=Life