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"In God We Trust"

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oscuria
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04 Jun 2008, 7:36 pm

skafather84 wrote:
oscuria wrote:
If there is more than one, do they not have their own Creator?



if there's only one, doesn't that one also have a creator?


The same can be said for the universe. Unless you consider the universe to be an illusion.

Now, we are children of our parents. Our parents were children to their parents. Where did these deities sprung out from? Where did the progenitor of these beings arise? They must trace their origin to one being. You can speculate on the being of this being, but the Being still is.

Even in duality religions, there is a good and an evil. The evil will lose to the good, leaving only the good. In pantheistic/panentheistic religions, the different deities are all one in the same, either being a part in or a part of the Primeval.


I'm just having trouble understanding Polytheism.


Ska, you are still an idiot for considering me a Christian, even after I've corrected you many times (unless your accusation of "no end" wasn't directed to me, which doesn't make sense in your post).


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Apple_in_my_Eye
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04 Jun 2008, 7:40 pm

The creepy pyramid with the eye in it bothers me more.

But the words could be useful when the dollar eventually becomes worthless. If we're too terrified to pray, we can look at the bills and be reminded to.



oscuria
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04 Jun 2008, 7:45 pm

Apple_in_my_Eye wrote:
The creepy pyramid with the eye in it bothers me more.

But the words could be useful when the dollar eventually becomes worthless. If we're too terrified to pray, we can look at the bills and be reminded to.



Ah.

Still, I find praying for money to be shallow. Certainly putting your faith to it, eh.


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skafather84
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04 Jun 2008, 7:50 pm

oscuria wrote:
Ska, you are still an idiot for considering me a Christian, even after I've corrected you many times (unless your accusation of "no end" wasn't directed to me, which doesn't make sense in your post).



that's my fault....when i said christians, i didn't mean to imply that you're more than one person....sorry, you're just one christian.


/sarcasm



skafather84
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04 Jun 2008, 8:03 pm

oscuria wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
oscuria wrote:
If there is more than one, do they not have their own Creator?



if there's only one, doesn't that one also have a creator?


The same can be said for the universe. Unless you consider the universe to be an illusion.

Now, we are children of our parents. Our parents were children to their parents. Where did these deities sprung out from? Where did the progenitor of these beings arise? They must trace their origin to one being. You can speculate on the being of this being, but the Being still is.

Even in duality religions, there is a good and an evil. The evil will lose to the good, leaving only the good. In pantheistic/panentheistic religions, the different deities are all one in the same, either being a part in or a part of the Primeval.


I'm just having trouble understanding Polytheism.



monotheistic mysticism that shows strong influence from judeo-christian sources.

so you're a 40 something yippie new ager?



Apple_in_my_Eye
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04 Jun 2008, 8:06 pm

It's not praying for money, or putting faith in it; it's putting faith in (or praying about) money being able to do what it's supposed to do (like pay for food, shelter, etc.).

Money is only worth anything because we trust a nutty system (aka the economy). It's value is not inherently any more real than God.



oscuria
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04 Jun 2008, 8:27 pm

Apple_in_my_Eye wrote:
It's not praying for money, or putting faith in it; it's putting faith in (or praying about) money being able to do what it's supposed to do (like pay for food, shelter, etc.)


Why not beg for food instead?


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oscuria
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04 Jun 2008, 8:29 pm

skafather84 wrote:
monotheistic mysticism that shows strong influence from judeo-christian sources.

so you're a 40 something yippie new ager?


Strong influence from Judeo-Christian sources? Because I'm sympathetic to the Abrahamic religions, and even defend them, does not mean that I practice them. I admire Rumi's work, it does not mean I follow him. However, I agree with much of his works, the same can be said of Kabir who was not a Muslim. I'm very little influenced by Christianity. Care to clarify your accusation?



The Youth International Party was a highly theatrical and anti-authoritarian political party established in the United States in 1967. An offshoot of the free speech and anti-war movements of the 1960s, the Yippies presented a more radically youth-oriented and countercultural alternative to those movements. They employed theatrical gestures—such as advancing a pig ("Pigasus the Immortal") as a candidate for President in 1968—to mock the social status quo.[1] They have been described as a highly theatrical youth movement of “symbolic politics.”

" A member of a group of politically radical hippies, active especially during the late 1960s."

I'm trying to understand how that can describe me, considering that I wasn't even born until the 80s. Not to mention I don't believe in anything they have to offer. How you get new age from any of my beliefs is certainly disturbing.



I'm trying to think about it but I don't know of many mystics that aren't monotheistic in a sense. How can there be independent deities in mysticism? It doesn't make sense, unless you would like to explain.


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skafather84
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04 Jun 2008, 8:34 pm

oscuria wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
monotheistic mysticism that shows strong influence from judeo-christian sources.

so you're a 40 something yippie new ager?


Strong influence from Judeo-Christian sources? Because I'm sympathetic to the Abrahamic religions, and even defend them, does not mean that I practice them. I admire Rumi's work, it does not mean I follow him. However, I agree with much of his works, the same can be said of Kabir who was not a Muslim. I'm very little influenced by Christianity. Care to clarify your accusation?



The Youth International Party was a highly theatrical and anti-authoritarian political party established in the United States in 1967. An offshoot of the free speech and anti-war movements of the 1960s, the Yippies presented a more radically youth-oriented and countercultural alternative to those movements. They employed theatrical gestures—such as advancing a pig ("Pigasus the Immortal") as a candidate for President in 1968—to mock the social status quo.[1] They have been described as a highly theatrical youth movement of “symbolic politics.”

" A member of a group of politically radical hippies, active especially during the late 1960s."

I'm trying to understand how that can describe me, considering that I wasn't even born until the 80s. Not to mention I don't believe in anything they have to offer. How you get new age from any of my beliefs is certainly disturbing.



I'm trying to think about it but I don't know of many mystics that aren't monotheistic in a sense. How can there be independent deities in mysticism? It doesn't make sense, unless you would like to explain.



ahhh so you study confusious.



Apple_in_my_Eye
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04 Jun 2008, 8:34 pm

oscuria wrote:
Apple_in_my_Eye wrote:
It's not praying for money, or putting faith in it; it's putting faith in (or praying about) money being able to do what it's supposed to do (like pay for food, shelter, etc.)


Why not beg for food instead?


Because when economies collapse there isn't enough or sits somewhere and rots because no one can transport it (because say, of the price of gas).

Ugh, this seems arguing for the sake of arguing which I am not interested in.



oscuria
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04 Jun 2008, 8:45 pm

Apple_in_my_Eye wrote:
Because when economies collapse there isn't enough or sits somewhere and rots because no one can transport it (because say, of the price of gas).

Ugh, this seems arguing for the sake of arguing which I am not interested in.


No. I stated I don't believe in praying or putting faith in money. Simple. You commented on that, and I responded.


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oscuria
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04 Jun 2008, 8:49 pm

skafather84 wrote:
ahhh so you study confusious.


I don't know much about Confucius to be honest. I heard some commentary on the radio last night about him. Born into a family of learned scholars, he was an advisor to the ruler based on his credentials of history, etc., and was moderately paid for his services. The Chinese under Mao and the culture revolution did much to destroy and discredit his works, but now he is getting some popularity. That's all I got.


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skafather84
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04 Jun 2008, 8:53 pm

oscuria wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
ahhh so you study confusious.


I don't know much about Confucius to be honest. I heard some commentary on the radio last night about him. Born into a family of learned scholars, he was an advisor to the ruler based on his credentials of history, etc., and was moderately paid for his services. The Chinese under Mao and the culture revolution did much to destroy and discredit his works, but now he is getting some popularity. That's all I got.



first, i want to say i'm sorry. i was joking around.

the yippie thing with mysticism was me joking around because you always stay as vague as possible about your beliefs here while still talking about them.

confusious was because you were confused. so i'm sorry for that.

i'd apperciate it if you explained your views sometime, though. you dont' have to do it in public if you don't want to...you could just PM it to me....but i would like to get a better picture of where you're coming from. and i didn't mean to imply you were a christian in the initial post before...i'm just very used to hearing that kind of argument from christians in general...though that's obviously more demographics than it is a particular belief that engenders such a question as "who created those gods" or anything like that.



The_Chosen_One
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04 Jun 2008, 11:16 pm

One thing about so-called creation that may have slipped peoples' minds....

To be created, you must first have a physical form to work with, so therefore to create humans (take the Christian example) god would therefore have to have a physical form to wield and work the materials necessary to make a human appear. Humans, as with other physical objects CANNOT just appear from nowhere, otherwise, why aren't any of us anywhere else in the universe? Supernatural beings only exist because the human mind has created them. Those that see ghosts only see them because their minds are susceptible to the concept of such things. Everyone would see them, otherwise. The FORMATION of the Universe had more to do with chemical and atomic/sub-atomic reactions that anything to do with supernatural beings.


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slowmutant
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05 Jun 2008, 7:15 pm

skafather84 wrote:
i scratch out god on every bill that passes through me. it violates the first amendment.

it wasn't even originally on the currency but added later. same with the pledge.


Technically that's damaging govt. property, defacing a dollar bill.

Do you hate God that much, ska?



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05 Jun 2008, 7:16 pm

The_Chosen_One wrote:
One thing about so-called creation that may have slipped peoples' minds....

To be created, you must first have a physical form to work with, so therefore to create humans (take the Christian example) god would therefore have to have a physical form to wield and work the materials necessary to make a human appear. Humans, as with other physical objects CANNOT just appear from nowhere, otherwise, why aren't any of us anywhere else in the universe? Supernatural beings only exist because the human mind has created them. Those that see ghosts only see them because their minds are susceptible to the concept of such things. Everyone would see them, otherwise. The FORMATION of the Universe had more to do with chemical and atomic/sub-atomic reactions that anything to do with supernatural beings.


Very interesting, coming from a pagan.