A question about the Catholic church

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very true

Congratulations you win a link!! !!

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=17238

If your sources were on the net, why not provide a direct link ... that would be sharing. Half of your quotes don't have links, and most of the links you provided don't work. You are attempting to build a case, but you are not giving us convincing information.

1. America has no culture and is the birthplace of cultural nihilism.
2. A job cannot be stolen, it is a free offer to exchange something of value for labor.
3. Our country is "bankrupting" because we have not let in enough immigrants and/or had enough children to pay for all the old people we can't let die because we know how to prevent it for a short period of time at a great cost. Also, "our" rich people moved all of our production to foreign countries where they pay so little that people flee those countries to do the worst jobs in our country. Any American who really wants to landscape, roof, or clean chickens can find a low-paying job doing just those things, unless they are lazier, tardier, and more indolent than the immigrants he or she works next to in so doing.
4. America is my country, and anyone who cares more about the law than the future of my country is free to love it or go***mn leave it.

P.S. For the record, do think the RCC is self-serving in its support for immigrants. This makes 2 edits.

Last edited by qaliqo on 29 Jul 2008, 1:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Yo, Galigo - watch your quoting. You are making me sound like Fred! I didn't say those things.

Fixed. Sorry. BTW, Q-A-L-I-Q-O (calico, with the "hard k" sound from "q"). Didn't think you thought or said those things! Honestly, like to think nobody thinks or says them...

That's your problem, not mine.

Yes. Or at least that they're not driving us bankrupt the way that you're implying. Not just taxes - they contribute to the economy in other ways, as well.
Read the links I posted.

Thanks - the lower case q led me astray - I guess the fact that it is underlined makes it look like a g. My bad.

Wrong

Baseball, hotdogs, apple pie, and cheverolet.. If you would have said that the United States doesnt have an ethnicity, I would have agreed with you but it does have a very proud and longstanding culture. It is foolish to deny something so obvious.




Wrong again

Illegal aliens have no right to work in America, therefore by doing so they are stealing jobs that would otherwise go to Americans. By undercutting American wages (you know what that means right?) they lower the wages for all other employees, effectively taking (stealing) food off American tables and clothes off of American backs.



0 for 3

California going bankrupt over
taxpayer dollars funneled to illegal aliens
http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2052120/posts
Unless something is done to curb illegal immigration, every state in the union will learn firsthand the burdon of bankruptcy thanks to illegal immigration. Who do you think is ultimately going to bail out California? Thats right.. the US taxpayer.



America will have no future if illegal aliens are allowed to break its laws and continue to recieve the same rights and privilages as Americans in America.



at least we agree on something

Im not the only one saying them

http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1328

Nearly two in three Americans (64%) would prefer their Congressional representative worked to pass immigration reforms that were more restrictive, while just one in four (26%) would back making the U.S.'s borders more open.

Advocates of a pathway to citizenship or a guest worker program may have a difficult road ahead, given the dim view the public holds of those in the country illegally.

Illegal immigrants who live and work within the U.S. are seen as a burden by a 46% plurality of Americans. Fewer than half as many - 22% - see them as a benefit.

Seven in 10 Americans (69%) favor compelling state and local governments to help enforce the U.S. borders, which is now a federal responsibility.

Despite the public's negative views of illegal immigrants, Americans do not overwhelmingly embrace deportation as a solution. While it is the single most popular means of dealing with the estimated 12 million illegal immigrants currently in the country, just 37% back outright deportation as a solution, while another 11% favor deporting illegal immigrants if they commit crimes. Slightly more than one in four respondents, meanwhile, believe they should be allowed to stay if they have jobs and pass background checks.

See it isnt just me. America as a whole is starting
to realize who the enemy is. The next step is to push
back and push back hard. The truth is that they will
only take over our country if we let them.

SAY NO TO MEXICO

Is that (their opposition) morally wrong?


Why not yours? if the catholic church is really an evil institution, shouldn't it be everybody's problem?

I agree that most Americans don't want to ease up on immigration, but would rather tighten things. That is quite different from saying that America agrees with most of what you are saying.

I think that illegal immigration would drop to a trickle if the American Citizens that illegally employed foreigners were arrested and had their businesses, homes, and cars seized as a penalty. Dirt-poor immigrants are willing to risk everything to come here for a better job, and they have little to lose if they are deported - it's a game of whackamole catch and release. As long as the job is there, they will find a way here. Wealthy Americans with property keep giving them jobs, because the wealthy have little to lose if they are caught, and they get to keep more money for themselves. So why not go after the easy target?

Baseball, hotdogs, apple pie, and cheverolet..

Baseball was invented here, but many of the top players hail from Latin America, and it is more universally accepted as part of the culture in Cuba and Japan; many proud Americans do not like or watch baseball. Hot dogs are meat sausages served on a bun, something done in Bavaria and Bohemia long before it reached our shores. Apple pie comes from England: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:For_ ... plis_(1381).gif is a picture of a recipe from 111 years before Columbus "discovered" the new world. Chevrolet is just a brand of automobile, no more a cultural phenomenon than Nike, and less recognized by foreigners coming to America. There are no universals, no cultural constants or identifiers, and two random Americans may have nothing at all in common, save their citizenship. Take Utah, where the culture is Mormon, or SF's China Town, where the culture is decidedly more Mandarin and Cantonese than American.

We agree on two points: America has no ethnicity and I am foolish. To paraphrase Socrates, if one is wiser than others, it is only in awareness of being a fool.

Illegal aliens have no right to work in America, therefore by doing so they are stealing jobs that would otherwise go to Americans.

Again, work is not a right or a possession. There is no right to work in America, the employer has the only legally recognized right, the right to hire the person deemed best for the position. If one believes in universal rights, everyone surely has a right to live and work in such a way as to provide for themselves and their families, regardless of location. Having held the jobs that illegal (and legal ) immigrants hold, most Americans quit doing these jobs at the drop of a hat, are insolent to superiors, and complain when days run long. Would not want to hire these Americans, they won't do the job, yet we cannot get enough legal immigrants to fill these positions. If everyone had a fast path to citizenship, very few would break the law; no one is served by the law, so it is broadly ignored by most American employers.

By undercutting American wages (you know what that means right?) they lower the wages for all other employees,

They are being paid wages in America, by American employers, ergo these wages are the American wages, so they are not being undercut. Undercutting is the heart of capitalism, if parties do not compete on price, and ergo on cost, it is an oligopoly, which is not very American. Have yet to hear so much as an anecdote of an employee having a wage lowered and staying with the company, except in circumstances where unions have already spent their future, and I don't know of any UAW worker or airline pilot being replaced by undocumented workers.

effectively taking (stealing) food off American tables and clothes off of American backs.

Since they are living in America, the tables the food does go on are American, too. If the families were allowed to come as well, all the clothing and food would go to Americans. It is the act of not allowing them to immigrate legally that makes their hard work theft. If the law were changed, and everyone could take leave from their American job, go to their home country, apply for citizenship for the whole family, and return in a timely manner, very few people would be illegal immigrants. Seems that the real issue is letting poor people live on this side of an imaginary line. Percentage wise, there are way more bare tables and backs outside America than inside it, and none of those countries are bankrupt yet. Americans without food or clothing have relatively little trouble obtaining relatively good donations of food and clothing, and we have plenty to share with hard-working would-be Americans.

California going bankrupt over
taxpayer dollars funneled to illegal aliens
http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2052120/posts

Took the time to read that link, seems that the 38 million Californians may have paid 10 million dollars, or $0.26 per capita. Since Californians have a per capita income of $35,019, that comes to a less than one percent of one percent of total income. If that is what is bankrupting America, we are in dire straits, indeed. To put this in perspective, America pays Israel between $500 and $1000 per person each year, dollars better spent on hard-working people and their families right here in America, citizen or otherwise. Still, the problem is the law against being in the country, not the workers we need. Economists generally agree that a job market is most robust at around 10% unemployment, in other words, we need tens of millions more workers without jobs to be a healthier economy. Add to that the ever-shrinking ratio of payers to payees in Social Security and Medicare, and it makes no sense to not give every illegal who wants it citizenship for self and family today, with no delay.

...Who do you think is ultimately going to bail out California? Thats right.. the US taxpayer.

Sure that Congress is just rushing to right California a check for $10M, a state that receives billions of dollars more from the feds than it pays in via federal taxation each year? These United States are the first step in a unified global civilization, and when Americans forget that goal, we are all in danger. That which was but a fantasy in the minds of the founders has, with the internet, air travel, global markets, and universal human rights, become the next major step in human history.

America will have no future if illegal aliens are allowed to break its laws and continue to recieve the same rights and privilages as Americans in America.

Absolutely right. We must legalize all of them and get their families inside our borders; they must become Americans and join us or go home until we do away with the nation-state on a global basis. ...or we have no future.

EDIT: Good job on using statistics to prove that our education system and media are so broken that most people desire self-destruction at the hands of retirees. Unless most Americans want to go Logan's Run on their elders, they need to make an educated choice, not a blind knee-jerk. Xenophobia is as old as humanity consisting of more than one tribe/clan, which doesn't make it more right, just more likely to be totally obsolete, like hunting game and gathering berries as an only means for survival.

Perhaps people are misunderstanding my previous post. All I said was that, despite my dislike of the Catholic Church, I thought their motives were relatively pure in defending illegal immigrants, as they are in their opposition to capital punishment



My response "That's your problem, not mine" refers to nightbender's taking offense to my feelings, not to the Catholic Church. You're right, that mighty institution is everybody's problem, but it can only be changed from the inside, IMHO.

and exactly what nefarious activities is the Catholic church engaged in?

What? You want to debate the Catholic Church here? Sorry, that's not what this topic is about... anyway, nothing I said is even debatable:

1) "I hate the Catholic Church" - well, that's pretty simple... How can you debate whether or not I hate the Catholic Church?

2) "I think it is an evil institution" - Are you telling me that I don't think it is an evil institution?

I don't have to justify my feelings or thoughts to you or to anyone... If you have a problem with them, that's your business... I don't begrudge you your thoughts or feelings, but then that's me

Of course, you could always dredge up one of the old topics that argue the merits of the Catholic Church; but I warn you, if what I said caused you to take offense, then prepare to be horrified at what others are going to say!