Doesn't God use magic?

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I wasn't asking you. It was a rhetorical question.

I have a broad understanding of what is yoga (unification). I believe the original teachings of Jesus are about how to realize God (the Holy Spirit) or how to unify yourself with Him. You may also call it mysticism or use another term if you wish. A side-effect of practicing mysticism or yoga is that you acquire powers that are considered to be "supernatural or occult" by ordinary people. This creation is floating within the mind of the Holy Spirit or God, so there is nothing truly miraculous about occult powers. Whether one should use them is a totally different matter. This creation was not made in systematic fashion by chance.

So you're saying Christianity itself is a yoga? Interesting ...

To reiterate:
For most, nothing is true unless it is already believed true.

Still doesn't explain the need for a Devil figure. Would like an answer on why anyone takes the idea seriously -- wasnot being rhetorical. Especially given the following:

I believe the original teachings of Jesus are about how to realize God (the Holy Spirit) or how to unify yourself with Him.

Yes. Again, belief has nothing to do with it. Prefer the term "mysticism" to "yoga", the latter falls under the former, and the broader brush is more appropriate when discussing Oneness.

A side-effect of practicing mysticism or yoga is that you acquire powers that are considered to be "supernatural or occult" by ordinary people.

Yes, but ordinary people cannot conceive of, much less understand, unification with God. Otherwise belief systems would be historical rather than contemporary.

Whether one should use them is a totally different matter. This creation was not made in systematic fashion by chance.

You're kidding, right? Of course powers should be used, like the body and mind, the spirit is there for God.

Oh, come on. Have you never read the Wheel of Time series, with saidar and saidin, the male and female sources of power, one of which has been corrupted by the Dark One and drives anyone who uses it mad? Or the Amber Chronicles, with the Pattern magic vs. the Chaos magic? Or seen Star Wars, with the Light and Dark Sides of the Force?

Not really.

Prayer and magic are different. Prayer is a request of a supernatural entity. (Of course, not all prayer is petitionary, but that's off topic.) Magic is an attempt to directly use supernatural power (at least I assume that's what Wiccans mean by the term). Also, you are assuming that Wiccan standards for what spells are acceptable will completely overlap with Christian standards for what prayers are acceptable. I doubt that the Christian and Wiccan understanding of free will is identical.

I hope you heard wrong. Asking God to carry out evil deeds for you is at least borderline blasphemy.

Angels of light, maybe? Remember, the Christian understanding is that demons were once angels, it's just that they rebelled against God, so now they're evil and hate everybody, whereas they once were good and loved everybody. Demons are bad angels.

I meant one should not use occult powers. Things happen for a reason and the way nature works is part of connecting all the countless different individual destinies. Going against the way nature normally works has its repercussions, namely the spiritual downfall of the person who abuses his powers to locally alter the rules of nature.

Yes.

Sorry, but English is tricky, so perhaps a misinterpretation on my part?

Occult (adjective)
1. of or pertaining to magic, astrology, or any system claiming use or knowledge of secret or supernatural powers or agencies.
2. beyond the range of ordinary knowledge or understanding; mysterious.
3. secret; disclosed or communicated only to the initiated.
4. hidden from view.
5. (science) a. not apparent on mere inspection but discoverable by experimentation. b. of a nature not understood, as physical qualities. c. dealing with such qualities; experimental: occult science

Under definition 1. "supernatural" , would extend should not to "could not", and qualify on "claiming" that unless it is knowledge and/or power, it is false, and nothing false should be used as true. Wouldn't take a fake antibiotic for a real infection... Under the other definitions, occult powers are nothing to be afraid of, and as suggested by 5.a. are discoverable by experiment.



Yes, that is why it seemed so obvious to me that occult powers were included by God as at our disposal; the countleseness itself makes these powers secret, mysterious, and beyond human understanding.



So flying in a plane by the occult power of lift is an abuse of power? Or only if the fuselage rips and it crashes? All of this is nature, there is no "other". Even if something new is discovered, known, used, it is still nature. The worst repercussion is the one that is unanticipated...

I doubt anyone can convince people mentally lost in the loony world of magic that reality is what happens and is understandable and explainable and useful. These people have built their whole world on dangerous nonsense. They are still burning witches in Africa.

And in Haiti they are terrified of zombies. But who are we to say what's real and what isn't? For all I know, witches, magic, and the occult are very much real. And the wendigo of North American Indian lore? How do I know there isn't such a creature walking the earth? Wendigo is certainly real to Indians. Every culture has its conceits.

He sure does. One time I took his name in vain and he magic missiled me in the nuts

Just be glad that he didn't use Melf's acid arrow there, that would have hurt.

Do you belive in spiritual guardians(animal guides), they are a very common part of different religions,I have met mine and from that experience I have a better reason to belive in that then I do other things. I have felt the presence of my guide the which is a panther at my side, would you say that this spirit that I have at my side is some kind of demon. The native americans a big beliefs in these guides and haveing an experience of one makes that more real then the fact I have never felt the spirit of Jesus. Despite the fact that it is an animal I feel, it is kind of like an angel looking after me, but many sources describe things to do with these as being magical in nature.

Despite what most people believe about their contact with the real world we each create from our sense input what we consider the real world and we live in that creation. To a large extent there is much agreement amongst individuals as to reality so that we can live together in some rationality and cope practically for our necessities. Nevertheless there are radical differences in each of our personal worlds and some people take the flood of sense input and do interesting and entertaining things. When they become too removed from normalcy individuals can be considered insane. Nevertheless, imaginary beings manufactured from the torrent of input may inhabit otherwise rational minds and even be put to use to deal with the world in a novel and perhaps useful way.

Honestly, you can interpret it any way you want. It actually doesn't mean anything (in comparison to this thread).

However, it can be seen this way: you don't work for another person unless the divide is removed. The farm next door becomes one, and your service benefits the whole. If you see distinction then you are working at your own expense. Another is that you're just wasting your time and doing nothing, or basically blind because you don't know where you and your place belong.

I just wanted to post the cow comment and see how it would be interpreted, especially since the cow is a beautiful creature.

Lift is not an occult power in the sense that I use the term because how it works can be explained by the normal laws of physics. To really be occult, a power should not follow the rules of physics. Walking through a wall, staying at the bottom of a river for weeks without any aids or appearing in two places at the same time are things that are done by using occult powers. Birds fly the same way that airoplanes do and there is nothing occult about it as any child can demonstrate with a piece of folded paper in the shape of a wing.