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Will creationists have a problem with this?

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iamnotaparakeet
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10 Sep 2008, 12:55 pm

Chever, it was a play on words. Were you actually serious in your post?



chever
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10 Sep 2008, 12:57 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Chever, it was a play on words. Were you actually serious in your post?


Yes


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iamnotaparakeet
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10 Sep 2008, 12:59 pm

chever wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Chever, it was a play on words. Were you actually serious in your post?


Yes


So, should we then discuss the words ALL and SOME?
Perhaps with a side discussion of connotations?



chever
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10 Sep 2008, 1:01 pm

Sure


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iamnotaparakeet
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10 Sep 2008, 1:03 pm

chever wrote:
Sure


Argh.



iamnotaparakeet
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10 Sep 2008, 1:10 pm

Quote:
Yup, pretty much any form of science was at some time considered a sin, often worthy of being killed over the usage of.


The example you, Chever, gave of DNForrest's statement was not a matter of Science being outlawed, but that the Roman Empire adopted Christianity and outlawed the other religions and any "heretical" sects as well. This is a general problem when the government has control of the thoughts of a people and part of the reason for the first amendment, though most directly would be the atrocities formerly performed by the Anglican Church.



Last edited by iamnotaparakeet on 10 Sep 2008, 1:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

chever
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10 Sep 2008, 1:10 pm

When someone says 'all', I substitute it with the universal quantifier. So, unless my thoughts get lazy, I say it and take it to mean 'all', period.

When someone says 'some', I substitute it with the existential quantifier. One, two, three, a million: makes no difference; they all mean 'some'.

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Quote:
Yup, pretty much any form of science was at some time considered a sin, often worthy of being killed over the usage of.


The example you, Chever, gave of DNForrest's statement was not a matter of Science being outlawed, but that the Roman Empire adopted Christianity and outlawed the other religions and any "heretical" sects as well. This is a general problem when the government has control of the thoughts of a people and part of the reason for the first amendment, though most directly would be the atrocities formerly performed by the Anglican Church.


All details. Most major sects of the Christian religion have had a historical (and, in some cases, continuing) problem with science and anything secular.

Consider the words of Martin Luther:

"Reason is the Devil's greatest whore; by nature and manner of being she is a noxious whore; she is a prostitute, the Devil's appointed whore; whore eaten by scab and leprosy who ought to be trodden under foot and destroyed, she and her wisdom ... Throw dung in her face to make her ugly. She is and she ought to be drowned in baptism... She would deserve, the wretch, to be banished to the filthiest place in the house, to the closets."

(He said a lot of things like that.)

I don't know about the closets, but I usually have reason spread around the floor by the desk myself.


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Last edited by chever on 10 Sep 2008, 1:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.

iamnotaparakeet
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10 Sep 2008, 1:14 pm

Quote:
The Christian religion has had a historical (and, in some cases, continuing) problem with science.
According to who?



chever
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10 Sep 2008, 1:17 pm

According to Martin Luther (see above); take it from the horse's mouth


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iamnotaparakeet
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10 Sep 2008, 1:20 pm

chever wrote:
According to Martin Luther (see above); take it from the horse's mouth


I haven't read much of Luther. I have read some of the Skeptical Chemist by Boyle though.



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10 Sep 2008, 1:24 pm

Luther hated reason with a passion, and it appears the idea hasn't been lost on certain Protestant clergy today.


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iamnotaparakeet
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10 Sep 2008, 1:26 pm

chever wrote:
Luther hated reason with a passion, and it appears the idea hasn't been lost on certain Protestant clergy today.


Seems like either a reflex reaction to the "Enlightenment"
crap or just being contrary to Aquinas and Augustine et al.



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10 Sep 2008, 1:26 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Quote:
The Christian religion has had a historical (and, in some cases, continuing) problem with science.
According to who?


No point trying to reason with this guy, parakeet. Your 'Argh' summed it up nicely!


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iamnotaparakeet
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10 Sep 2008, 1:28 pm

LeKiwi wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Quote:
The Christian religion has had a historical (and, in some cases, continuing) problem with science.
According to who?


No point trying to reason with this guy, parakeet. Your 'Argh' summed it up nicely!


Thanks. I just wish I weren't argumentative too. :(



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10 Sep 2008, 1:28 pm

Luther hated reason

Are you denying this?


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10 Sep 2008, 1:30 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Quote:
The Christian religion has had a historical (and, in some cases, continuing) problem with science.
According to who?

Examples from the past: Copernicus and Galilei, the rejection of heliocentrism and the belief of geocentrism to go according to creation by the church, back then, even though the Catholic Church now accept this and other scientific theories about the origin and age of the universe and life, probably due to its history of persecution, some protestant denominations don't, so the problems with science still persist today, evolution and the age of the universe, reject because of the literal interpretation of the Bible. It is clear that problems with science continue, it is a good thing that science is not limited to what religion dictates.


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Last edited by greenblue on 10 Sep 2008, 1:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.