What Jesus really looked like

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Khan_Sama
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25 Sep 2008, 8:11 am

ValMikeSmith wrote:

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Jesus is a fictional character, an archetype, the "hero" in an ancient ( greek, indian, and other) mythology which went planetary when mixed with Judaism and the Roman empire.

Whom the whole world counts his age! What happened around 2008 years ago?

Does anyone know what "year 1" was numbered by the precedent Roman Empire?
Surely they didn't count backwards in the BC age.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_calendar

slowmutant
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25 Sep 2008, 8:32 am

If you attack my faith, you attack me. Expect a very prickly response.

slowmutant
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25 Sep 2008, 8:33 am

ouinon wrote:

slowmutant wrote:

How can John Shelby Spong be a Christian doctor if he doesn't believe in Christ? This is why all your names and references are meaningless.

It is not necessary to believe in a historical Christ to believe in Christ as one version/expression of a meaningful spiritual archetype, as present in many ancient mythologies.

.

What does that even mean?

If you don't believe in Jesus as I do, what is your conception of him?

ouinon
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25 Sep 2008, 9:14 am

slowmutant wrote:

ouinon wrote:

It is not necessary to believe in a historical Christ to believe in Christ as one version/expression of a meaningful spiritual archetype, as present in many ancient mythologies.

What does that even mean? If you don't believe in Jesus as I do, what is your conception of him?

Believing in, and feeling intense gratitude towards, aswell as feeling sorrow about, that which was sacrificed/"willingly sacrificed itself" to save us/enable us/humans to attain new kind of life.

This could/can mean many things. In my own case I felt it/experienced this awareness of being unconditionally loved, and of receiving something as a result of sacrifice, in connection with my body.

An important part of the gnostic mysteries was suppressed by the emerging Christian religion, notably Sophia, who represented knowledge. It is possible that the Jesus archetype, Sophia's brother, originally represented the body, and that its sacrifice was of that physical-mental unity/wholeness which prevented/could not co-exist with certain of our mental powers, ( language, and other symbolic activity on which most cultural and artistic and scientific/technological progress has been based), a sacrifice which needs to be mourned/appreciated, in order to understand how precious, how "expensive" our mental powers are, what they have cost.

And every time we eat and drink is an opportunity to remember, and appreciate what it, and we, lost for "us" to be what we are. And how much it suffers for our "freedom".

That's just my take on it, based on my own experience/"moment of grace". Read Timothy Freke, Peter Gandy, for their take on the ancient gnostic mysteries, and what that religion/spirituality might have meant to people.

.

Last edited by ouinon on 25 Sep 2008, 9:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

slowmutant
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25 Sep 2008, 9:20 am

How can you be so certain of all this?

ouinon
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25 Sep 2008, 9:25 am

slowmutant wrote:

How can you be so certain of all this?

Some of it I am reasonably certain about because of what I have read, and some of it because of what I have experienced.
.

slowmutant
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25 Sep 2008, 9:27 am

Would you call yourself a Christian? I mean, denying the existence of Jesus is like denying the Holocaust or saying 9/11 was an inside job. What is the usefulness of this?

z0rp
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25 Sep 2008, 10:56 am

ouinon wrote:

Jesus is a fictional character, an archetype, the "hero" in an ancient ( greek, indian, and other) mythology which went planetary when mixed with Judaism and the Roman empire.

Therefore what he looks like depends on the director/designer/illustrator, or on your imagination like when you read a book.

.

Shhh, don't spoil their fun! You wouldn't tell a five year old Santa Clause isn't real would you?

slowmutant
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25 Sep 2008, 11:00 am

Shut up, kid.

skafather84
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25 Sep 2008, 11:18 am

slowmutant wrote:

denying the existence of Jesus is like denying the Holocaust or saying 9/11 was an inside job.

except one is just some messiah figure who was executed for being a political threat while the other two were large tragedies...though the holocaust and the soviet execution of jews far exceeds the tragedy of 9/11 and probably shouldn't be in the same class.

the denying of jesus is pretty normal. it's called not being a muslim, jew or christian.

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slowmutant
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25 Sep 2008, 11:20 am

skafather84 wrote:

slowmutant wrote:

denying the existence of Jesus is like denying the Holocaust or saying 9/11 was an inside job.

All of these denials are in the same class to me. The denying of Jesus, either implicitly or explicitly, is the reason for society's descent into something resembling hell.

ouinon
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25 Sep 2008, 12:31 pm

slowmutant wrote:

Would you call yourself a Christian?

No, for the same reason that I don't identify as Buddhist or anything else. I find religions too monolithic, institutionalised, organised, bureaucratic, to "describe" my own individual religious/spiritual position.

I think that it is very unlikely that a handful of religious creeds could adequately describe thousands/millions of people's belief systems, unless, that is, their beliefs were relatively mindless/unthinking conditioning/copying of the dominant model(s), or the socially privileged/valued one(s).

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I mean, denying the existence of Jesus is like denying the Holocaust or saying 9/11 was an inside job.

I don't see any similarity. In what way are they the same kind of thing?

Quote:

Usefulness?

Denying the historical existence of Jesus is a perspective which fits my own experience, data. It makes sense. It explains a great many things which had previously seemed dissatisfactory, is illuminating, and liberating.

Is that what you mean by "usefulness"?

.

Fidget
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25 Sep 2008, 3:56 pm

Okay, I don't know why every thread to do with Christianity has to turn into a huge argument. People don't just swich their religion so easily, they firmly believe their religion to be true. So nothing anyone says on here is going to change anyone's mind. As I stated I'm practically atheist, but you don't see me jumping down the Christian member's throats. I ask all of the fellow atheist and agnostics on here why does it matter? It's their beliefs, is it hurting you? As long as people aren't just being hateful and using their religion as an excuse it doesn't bother me. Not everyone is going to think the same, that's what makes humans so interesting! Bah.

skafather84
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25 Sep 2008, 4:29 pm

slowmutant wrote:

skafather84 wrote:

slowmutant wrote:

denying the existence of Jesus is like denying the Holocaust or saying 9/11 was an inside job.

All of these denials are in the same class to me. The denying of Jesus, either implicitly or explicitly, is the reason for society's descent into something resembling hell.

hahahaha.

Cultus_Diabolus
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25 Sep 2008, 4:35 pm

slowmutant wrote:

Would you call yourself a Christian? I mean, denying the existence of Jesus is like denying the Holocaust or saying 9/11 was an inside job. What is the usefulness of this?

denying the holocaust or 9/11 is like going to a restaurant with a salt shacker on the table and denying salt shackers exist, its rite in front of you. saying i don't believe in a guy who had a story book written about him 2 k years ago is a little more sensible. going further with the the prelude to his story the old testament first chapter -genesis for those who haven't read the bible- is so poorly wrong it had to be a fiction. i mean seriously if you look at the time line of the story god made humans write after the historical agricultural revolution where humans learn how to domesticate and farm wild plants and animals. its a good fiction i dont no why so many people think this story book is historically true.

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Fidget
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25 Sep 2008, 4:38 pm

Cultus_Diabolus wrote:

slowmutant wrote:

Would you call yourself a Christian? I mean, denying the existence of Jesus is like denying the Holocaust or saying 9/11 was an inside job. What is the usefulness of this?

(completely off topic) I really like your signature.

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