The Church (In General) & Aspies

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Well, what a subject for me.

My parents were raised Catholic, but they switched to Episcipalian when I was born. Then before I could remember, they became the dreaded "Born Again" Christians. We moved when I hit 7th grade.

So then we went church hopping to find a good church, and we found a very small church (like 20 members) that we liked. A couple years later, the church no longer was, so we ended up at this Baptist church that my mom worked in (choir director). After I graduated high school, I did their beach week instead of senior beach week. That was the most aweful experience. I'm still very very bitter about it, so you'd get an earful if I tell the whole story. Since then, I go to church for weddings and funerals only, and even then, they better be close.

Now I find myself having a slight phobia of church. In basic training, people, athiests, went to church in order to get a break. It was highly recommended for that break. I tried it once, and preferred to clean up the dorms with the Training INstructor (Air Force version of Drill Sgt.). I did like Bible Study, but I often slept in it because we never got to sleep and it was hard for me to sit and not move and stay awake.

So, then I marry a Catholic (outside of the church, and I still don't understand how I'm in mortal sin cause the marriage isn't valid until I marry in the church except that if I got a divorce and wanted to remarry in the church, then they'd have to consider all my previous marriages as valid even if they weren't performed in the church). Anyway, I'm trying to warm up to Catholicsm. I started by going to a Catholic Forum, but I felt like they were judging me based on my problems with what they consider the socially appropriate. They've come close to banning me for stupid reasons like I insulted God and the church when I tried to state my observation of communion on a visit to mass, but I guess that's a taboo subject because they take communion/Eucharist so seriously that to take it lightly like a mere observation is insulting. In fact, I don't understand how they can discuss it at all without insulting each other. So, I go on there now once in a while, but I've lost interest since I feel judged too much. But, I will say that I find it a beautiful quality of the church to take communion as seriously as they do, but i wish they could also take the idea that other people may not realize that a little bit more heavily than they do. It's funny how someone started a thread on here about kids not realizing that the person they are talking to doesn't know everything the kid knows (like if a kid was at a class that you weren't at and then was trying to tell you what happened in that class, they always leave out a lot of the story because they don't realize you wouldn't know what they know). They make it sound like it goes away into adulthood, but it doesn't.

I personally am very spiritual. I like to read the Bible and study the Bible on my own, and actually study it rather than taking it out of context, which for someone with Aspergers, I think i do a better job at that than most people. I also find Catholic Catechism to be a very interesting study. I never considered angels to be all knowing for instance, so to think about the idea that God could never forgive Satan is interesting. I, unlike many church members, believe I should actually try to live by the Book. I really try not to lie, and I try not to sin, and I try to treat people with the same respect as Jesus would treat them. I also am aware that I am human and is destined to sin. I expect everyone to sin. I think it's important because you can't grow and learn without sin. Otherwise, we'd be angels. But, we don't grow from it if we try to deny we do it. The growth comes out of sin, guilt, apology, asking for forgiveness which is humility and humbleness, and then finding a way to forgive yourself. I just think church members feel that because they go to church, they have this right to use God as a mask to cover their sins and be in denial about it. The truth will set you free.

In all honesty, I consider churches to be a social group. It's like creating a book club based on the Bible. Nothing more. Christ expected more when He started the church, but human evolution destroyed that beauty. Just imagine the letters Paul would write today. It's a popularity contest and ego feeding activity full of politics. I don' t know if this is an Aspie thing or not, but I'm not attracted to politics and other reindeer games, especially when dealing with something as important as my spirit and soul. I personally get insulted when people take things like heaven and hell with a grain of salt by dealing with it as lightly as they seem to be socially adept to doing. But churches are often more concerned about people insulting them than them insulting other people.

Now, I'm considering Catholicism only because it's the one true church started by Christ, and I have to accept it flaws and all, but also, my children. I have a friend who never takes her kids to church. They have no concept of Jesus, Adam and Eve, etc. One day, her son asked seriously if Gosh was God's brother. I can't do that to my kids. They need to be in a church to learn about all those things, and I can't think of a better church than The church.

Why? Let's see. The priests are often very educated, some holding more than one or two degrees and many with PhD's, and most can read Hebrew and Greek (original language of the Bible). Plus, the facts are more taught in The Church such as it's normal for the active members to be aware of the history of translation and the different types of translations that are out there and to study some of the problems in translation, and to even read the Bible in different translations. They don't tell you myths like I read in a modern christian book that Moses wrote the book of Deuteronomy, but I know better that it was the Deuteronomic Historians that wrote that book and you can tell by their style...hence it being a History Book as opposed to Poetry like Psalms. I am also aware that there is no real historical evidence of Moses except The Bible and The Q'ran. Plus, I have daughters. While Jesus Christ is an awesome tangible character for the concrete thinkers (young children), I would like them to be able to connect earlier on with a woman like Mary. I also think the Catholic Church gives women more respect than the Protestants. The Jewish faith is the only other one I know that gives women a lot of respect. But it's not just about stories about the sins of women like Eve, and Delilah or on "permissable sin" which I don't buy of Rebekah, Sarah, etc. For instance, they tell you it was the women who were there for Christ at the time of His Crucifixion when all the men/disciples fled in fear for their life (except for Jesus's cousin who was family). I love the Saints and Angels. As a kid, my church told me that Satan is an evil ugly monster who is all powerful, and he and his demons are trying to get my soul by constantly surrounding me telling me to do bad things, and I don't know if they are even there because they are invisible, and unlike the boogeyman, this is a real story. I was scared to sleep many times. That was scary, and stupid of them to tell kids stories like that. At least in Catholicism, kids can say a prayer to Michael everytime they get scared knowing he will come down and git some. They can also find specific tangible people they relate to in addition to who is in the Bible. In addition, I don't know of many Baptist churches that require the classes to do something important in your life like choose your religion, get married, have children, etc. I have many other reasons, but those are the main ones that come to mind. I tried to partake in the RCIA program this year, but I couldn't always make it there, and mass isn't happening yet. I still fear the social gathering too much, and I couldn't concentrate, even in the crying room, with my children who are 1 and 2. Until then, I'm going to try to do more and read more on the catechism and try her again next year.

As far as me, personally, I feel like I'm spiritually lacking in conversation. My mom is your basic neurotypical where she doesn't enjoy deep conversations. On Christmas Eve, I almost wrecked really bad, and it was a moment where I actually cried out to God out of fear and desperation, and I never actually cried out like that before in my life. There's other parts of context that makes this situation even more a big issue. When I was trying to talk about it with my mom on the phone, she started talking over me to a family member around her about her finishing an alcoholic beverage someone couldn't finish and she told them to stick in the fridge and she'd drink it later. Then after I patiently waited for that conversation to finish, she gets back with me and said she had to go, but blah blah blah about my daughter (the thing we talked about before I went in on the other subject) as if I never mentioned anything serious about my near death moment. I find it difficult to find people to talk to about these things because they either don't care or they don't know enough about the Bible. The local Priest is awesome for that one on one, and I loved finding someone to talk to like that, but I can't always escape my house whenever I need to talk. I depend on the phone and internet more for conversation. I will say, the Priest offered much more than any Protestant Pastor I ever talked to because he didn't judge me or argue. When I was wrong, he handled it with respect and understanding. But, I can't get any of that in mass, and mass would just make me ask more questions that I would like to discuss with someone like my Priest who has to be too busy to do so regularly. Not to mention I have a hard time with schedules right now in my life, i.e. appointments and being places on time.

Which just reminds me, I loaned him out my movie Dogma. I still don't know what he thought of it. I'm so curious as to if he were insulted by it or thought it was funny. See, I personally think God has a great sense of humor to make man in the first place, so I don't think God gets as insulted as many church members like to make the world believe. But then again, I also believe God is beyond ego and insults, although some of the things I see done in His Name has to be insulting, but I think that's what He means by "saying His name in vain." I'm sorry, but I believe things like the Crusades, Spanish Inquisition, and other cheap tactics to "minister and spread His word" is more of a commandment breaker than the guy that says GD a lot. Then, we get back to denial, which is common in any church.

I've always told people that i never find sanctuary in a church. That is still true. I also find it hard to find any real guidance. Some people are incapable of thinking on the level I think to really explain some things to me, even the things they do know better than me on. It's not that I think I'm smarter than the church as much as imagine thought to be a rubix cube, and while most people think on a certain side of that cube, I tend to think in a certain color. No church so far has been able to offer me anything valuable in a language I can comprehend because they can't get past the social etiquette or judgement long enough to communicate anything worth communicating, but The Church has come closest. Although, I have yet to really talk to a Rabbi, and I'm curious how that would go. I tend to be attracted to the OT more so than the NT, but I couldn't imagine life without Jesus as the Messiah. I guess I think no church has it right yet. They all got good and bad to them, but they still have yet to fully hit the nail on its head. Since I'm trying for accuracy here, I really think I'm better on my own.

But, my children are not, so I have to attempt this social stuff for them. Even worse, I know if I'm an outcast, then my kids will be too, so I actually have to try to win people over and be fake in a world where I'm dying to be myself. Maybe if I were wealthy, that would be easier. But I think as long as I'm not poor and do a lot of leadership type volunteer efforts and become an asset to The Church's goals like charity efforts, then I might be able to be respected enough for my children to receive it. But, my father was well respected in the Church community, and I think many people put up with me for that reason alone, but if he rubbed one the wrong way, my sister and I got most of the reprocussions. That's wrong, but that's how people are, and any church is defined by her people. I just don't know exactly how I'm going to play this out. I am a little bitter that I have to figure it out for sake of my children to be accepted. That is too far from what Christ intended.

Since I've seen a post referring to Santa Claus. I finally figured how I'm going to explain that to my kids. I'm going to say that Santa exists, but you can call her mom. As far as the real Santa (Spanish for Saint, which many Protestants can't figure that out), I will refer them to St. Nicholas. While that is more true than the Santa as many people know him, I got a feeling that will adversly affect the social etiquettes as it will tick a lot of people off, even your church going Christians who regularly lie to their children about such things and turn around and tell them it's a Commandment Breaker to lie. I just can't knowingly set the wrong example, and since hypocracy is one that really gets under my skin (even though I'm guilty of it as well), I can't add to the flame by setting that kind of example. I'm sorry if it calls a mom out with her kid on her lie, but that's why you shouldn't lie...duh. Especially about a fat guy who feeds people's greed. Talk about promoting gluttony.

But you can see how my mentality doesn't fly well in church. Sorry to go on and on. But like I said, what a question for me.

Just a joke I couldn't stop myself from posting. I'm not a huge Church fan either, but I don't mind them, and music is my main obsession.

I never thought that even you would sink so low as to make a personal attack on an amputee for having a realistic opinion.

When a post appears to break the rule against making personal attacks, the appropriate response is to PM a mod with a link to the post that violates the rule.

This is the kind of thing you do to others all the time. Not a nice feeling, is it?

The people at my church want to be friends with me and want to include me in their activities but I do not. I try my best to ignore and be ignored and I turn them down anytime they ask me to do something with them. I beleive in god and I beleive that my religion is the one true religion but I do what I do because god wants me to. I want nothing to do with the people.

Unfortunately, this makes it rather difficult to be a part of the religion and carry out the necessary activities.

Yes, the Jewish approach is more introspective than the Christian approach. Christians like to have one and only one meaning from each passage of Scripture. Whereas our approach doesn't mind the fact that one passage can have slightly different literal meanings, plus symbolic and comparative meanings, plus hidden meanings - all of which can be similtaneously true. Hebrew words have numeric values and you can take other Hebrew words and phrases with the same numeric value and insert them as a replacement into the narrative and find additional insight. Such an approach drives the Christians crazy. The Greek mindset has trouble taking conflicting meanings and holding them in tension against one another to begin to grasp the universal Truth that is out there. They haven't even begun to understand what is meant by "Alpha and Omega" (in Hebrew "Aleph and Tav") and what it means and how it applies.

Sorry, can't help myself.

That's not The Church; THIS is The Church:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8RLGgWlF7k&feature=related[/youtube]

The Church - Tear It All Away (1981)


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idiYlpx6Y2o[/youtube]

The Church - Constant In Opal

^ I guess this one could be about what it's like to be an aspie.

Wow! Thanks for answering my questions and not thinking I'm nosy.

My interest was piqued and you have given me quite a bit to think about here. I'll have to digest it for a while. And think about how Greek philosophy influenced Christianity, since I heard about that in passing in a philosophy course and always meant to look into it.

Although I'm not a fundamentalist by any means.

The "multiple meaning" approach holds much more appeal for me!

The Saints on the other hand...

....are playing a reunion show soon - original line-up except for the bass player.