A story by Isaac Asimov (WARNING: Depressing as hell)

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slowmutant
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22 Jan 2009, 9:43 am

Awesomelyglorious wrote:

slowmutant wrote:

Maybe the computer thought it could when in the end it couldn't. Maybe the computer couldn't accept defeat.

Computers wouldn't be built with that kind of self-awareness of personality, at least there is no evidence that the computer Asimov indicated had these features throughout this period of time. In any case, a system crash would not be a matter of defeat, it would be a matter of contradiction or overload, contradictions and overloads do not take this long to deal with, and if one were likely then it would have likely happened with the first such computer, not the last one.

We're talking about a fantastical cosmic ac, remember. Outside of even your experience, O Divine One.

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22 Jan 2009, 10:43 am

slowmutant wrote:

We're talking about a fantastical cosmic ac, remember. Outside of even your experience, O Divine One.

Well, ok, but still my point that there is nothing in the story to hint at something similar still seems true, as the computer is deprived of personality to a large extent and is mostly a plot device.

slowmutant
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22 Jan 2009, 10:45 am

Awesomelyglorious wrote:

slowmutant wrote:

We're talking about a fantastical cosmic ac, remember. Outside of even your experience, O Divine One.

Agreed.

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22 Jan 2009, 4:14 pm

I Asimoved topic

A parable concerning consciousness rising. I am glad the question was finally asnwered, and the way Isaac did it was sheer literary genius.

The ending is not surprising. the consciousness was not necessarily something godlike. I think it evolved, much as ours id after trillions of years. Regenesis. I could see the explosion of light, the cosmic Big Bang. The Universe will rise again. I thought it was very uplifting, not depressing, not deterministic at all.

All shine on, begin again. :sunny: :star: :cheers:

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slowmutant
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22 Jan 2009, 4:46 pm

sartresue wrote:

Agreed. The theme of death and rebirth is uplifting.

Awesomelyglorious
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22 Jan 2009, 6:01 pm

twoshots wrote:

Well, it's not a scholarly article, sure, there isn't much to say about the idea. But the point mass model does not serve as a valid reductio.

Right, I was being kind of sloppy because I didn't want to use any integrals. In any case, I cannot exclude the possibility, but I do not find it without question.

claire-333
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22 Jan 2009, 7:02 pm

...

Last edited by claire-333 on 24 Jan 2009, 2:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Awesomelyglorious
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22 Jan 2009, 11:21 pm

claire333 wrote:

I got the impression the AC was conscious and quite determined to answer the question.

I don't see any sign that there was thinking above that of a typical computer, perhaps even less than that of our more user-friendly applications.

slowmutant
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23 Jan 2009, 8:25 am

Awesomelyglorious wrote:

claire333 wrote:

I got the impression the AC was conscious and quite determined to answer the question.

I don't see any sign that there was thinking above that of a typical computer, perhaps even less than that of our more user-friendly applications.

I dunno, I tend to agree with claire333 on this one.

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23 Jan 2009, 11:05 am

slowmutant wrote:

I dunno, I tend to agree with claire333 on this one.

Well, there is a human tendency to anthropomorphize things, but there are only about 2 times in which the computer does not just say "Insufficient information", the first being an explanation to a user, and the second being just saying "Let there be light", and the latter was done shamelessly to address religious issues. In any case, I also take the ALL CAPS TALKING as reflective of a rather rigid manner of speaking rather than the adaptive way in which people tend to speak, this also indicates a lack of mind to me.

slowmutant
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23 Jan 2009, 11:17 am

"Let there be Light" was a reference to the Book of Genesis, to God speaking the universe into existence. It was a direct reference, one that most people would recognize. But what made it shameless? Its context in a SF story? I realize how SF is a tradition that is scornful of religion and religious themes, but your comment imputes things into the mind of the author that we can't possibly know.

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23 Jan 2009, 11:57 am

slowmutant wrote:

Asimov obviously had this amusing thought that the second law of thermodynamics demanded a total run-down of the universe at the end and he wondered how this might be reversed and simultaneously how the universe got wound up in the beginning. So he proposed the idea that a super computer would finally discover a way to rewind the universe and start things up again. The phrase "Let there be light" was merely symbolic of the act of rewinding and encapsulated the action rather neatly into a traditional legend. If anything, it was merely a twist to join legend with science.

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23 Jan 2009, 12:23 pm

Sand wrote:

slowmutant wrote:

Well, I saw that as tacky. I mean, I understand the twist and the reference as it was direct, but it is a religious reference thrown in for the sake of throwing in a religious reference. This isn't to say that I hate references to religion, just that I think this one, and that this story as a whole, is pretty tacky.

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23 Jan 2009, 1:13 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:

Sand wrote:

slowmutant wrote:

Naah! Not tacky. Just a joke. Poking fun at both religion and science at the same time.

slowmutant
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23 Jan 2009, 5:37 pm

Sand wrote:

slowmutant wrote:

You mean science with theology.

And yes, I thought it was effective, as well.

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23 Jan 2009, 7:22 pm

Sand wrote:

Naah! Not tacky. Just a joke. Poking fun at both religion and science at the same time.

Well, not a great joke from my view. I can respect it more from a joking perspective than any other perspective, but still... not that great.

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