I'm not going to post in PPR anymore

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Homophobia, and more specifically xenophobia, is not going to be eradicated by the elimination of immigration or cultural integration. Clans and societies for centuries have subdivided and consumed themselves on points of ritual or belief. Because it is foreign to you, it is inferior? Do you recognize that you are exhibiting more prejudicial behavior than those you claim to be trying to filter out? Why are American correlations irrelevant, when they are directly comparable? The currently "most developed" place on Earth was once a cesspool when other areas thrived... your view is rather shortsighted to me, I'm afraid.


M.

Is there any reason to add extra homophobic spice in extreme form on top of other problems? Middle-easterners have brought nothing of value to Europe through immigration. They wouldn't bring anything of value to Japan or South Korea either through immigration.

They are just here because their own countries suck. That sounds harsh but it's the simple truth. Their countries are so underdeveloped and socially crippled that they need to swarm higher developed nations in order to feel they have lives worthy of living. Italy is currently turning the trend around. The Berlusconi government has revoked laws preventing the spreading of xenophobic material, several ministers are right wing extremes and a few weeks ago Italy performed the first succesful escorted return mission in modern history of immigrants trying to enter from Africa. Europe is on the right track and anti-immigration parties are gaining more and more ground everywhere.

Their countries are bad, so you want them to keep being there? And you want those countries to keep being bad? Do I understand you right?

I hope you continue to post, Zoonic. It seems not many people in here agree on much anyway...

We have no obligation to take them in just because their countries suck. Yes I think they should live in the dirt in their own countries. Tough luck but that's life.

That is an entirely subjective argument; a great deal of what allowed Europe to flourish came from these countries that you dismiss so casually. You are welcome to your opinion, but I feel that you are only inviting conflict, war and strife through your methods.


M.

Through the crusades and from the spanish genocide on moors in Spain, europeans gained a lot of new knowledge, yes. Does that mean we owe to these people so much that they should be allowed to immigrate as useless and non-needed immigrants who just want a better life for themselves? Do you also believe blood-sin, which passes through the generations, is good? I know many american jews think that every single german born in 1995 should pay tribute to the 5th generation survivors of the holocaust until the end of time, but that idea is still absurd.

Japan developed into the super nation it is today thanks to trade with Britain, Germany and the United States. Before that they traded with dutch and portugese. Should Japan just allow any greasy anime-nerd who wants to marry a "sexxy jpanaaese grl" to immigrate, as a way of showing their appreciation for bringing them radios and automobiles and new technology?

Japan has a huge population but hardly any violent street crime. Hardly any HIV/AIDS etc. It's the safest country in the developed world, all this thanks to not allowing immigrants in. If Japan started taking in immigrants from Africa and the middle-east, I don't even want to think about what a blow it would be to that country. The first cut is the deepest, it's true and Europe has been cut and defiled so many times by these immigrants that we no longer feel the pain and the dirt in the wounds. I think that's sad. Our society is a muslim brothel.

Japan also faces demographic collapse in a century and ultimately depopulation.

w00t.

After depopulation they will grow again. Europe is trying to compensate by bringing in weed into the garden. Japan is cutting the branches of the trees so that they can grow stronger.

I prefer a well managed garden to one which is just overgrown and unkept.

I know you're asking makuranososhi, but I wanted to say something about what you've just written (I hope makuranososhi doesn't mind). You are assuming that these countries would be motivated to let in immigrants because of gratitude for past help. This isn't why they should do it at all.

The idea behind letting immigrants into a country is that they (or at least a good portion of them) will bring skills which help the country and ideas from their own culture, some good and some bad. These ideas will, after generations, become mixed in with the culture of the country and alter the country's culture, hopefully improving it (by the country absorbing the good parts of the foreign culture but not being so keen on the bad parts and so discarding them).

I would like to give an example of culture-mixing producing something positive. I am not sure how familiar you are with professional wrestling, but in case you are unaware of this it is popular in many countries in the world. Two countries with major wrestling industries are Japan and the USA. In fact, it was from American soldiers stationed in Japan in the aftermath of World War 2 that professional wrestling was introduced to Japan.

Now, the way professional wrestling is done in the two countries differs. What is interesting to a Japanese crowd bores an American crowd, and vice versa. However, even though this is the case, many young American wrestlers are sent to Japan in the beginning of their career in order that they will be exposed to the Japanese style of wrestling. Frequently young wrestlers from Japan are also sent on tour into the USA as part of their learning the art as well, so they can pick up the points of the American wrestling style.

Why is this, if the foreign styles are not even appreciated by the wrestler's native crowds? It is because, although the full on foreign styles aren't popular, there are aspects of each country's traditional wrestling styles which are useful to a wrestler from the other country.

Many of the best wrestlers from the West spent some of their formative years working in Japan. Many of the best Japanese wrestlers spent some time working in the USA when they were younger. If both countries decided not to take in foreign wrestlers, then both wrestling industries would be poorer. So neither country can afford to block the other from sending wrestlers, because then the other would do the same (not that they would even want to do so, Japanese wrestlers are highly sought after in the USA because of their reputation for technical skill and American wrestlers are wanted in Japan because it is easy to get the crowds to boo a Gaijin (and so get behind the Japanese wrestler who he is facing)).

Well, anyway, anyone who's accused Americans of being particularly racist or nationalistic has apparently been refuted by several of the European denizens of this very forum. I will be accepting your written apologies, in triplicate, followed by a cheer of "America is hella f*****g balls to the wall awesome". You will then chug 6 cans of Coca Cola, eat 3 Big Macs, and watch Titanic in penance. Lather rinse and repeat indefinitely.

I know, I cannot believe anyone was warned for voicing negative views about Americans...seems like a hobby here sometimes.

I was going to be doing that anyway, since you guys destroyed my native country's culture and replaced it with your own.

You are overgeneralizing Muslims. I know a lot of Muslims who are good people and not hateful(even against gays). You just dont seem to know any liberal Muslims.(or ones who can hold their tongue) I dont get why you have to hate EVERY Muslim for the stupid actions of some of them. Its the same logic that forged racism here in America. I'd hate to see Sweden become as culturally segregated and the US is. Muslims aren't weeds but they are people too just like you and me, it is pointless to dehumanize them and just plain cruel. Maybe you should see how you treat others a bit more before complaining about how others treat you...

As long as they even think that "gays are okay, it's the sexual act between men that's wrong and Allah condemns it" I can't accept them. They have that self-righteous loathing for gay people just beneath the surface. It's not honest, not friendly. It's false and disgusting and their religion is, like all the three monotheistic religions, a complete joke. I would ban the three monotheisms first thing if I became dictator.

Sure cultural EXCHANGE is good, not cultural integration of millions of people. With exchange, you get to choose the good parts. With immigration you get the bad parts which are the predominant ones.

In Sweden 30 years ago no one used the term "f**k your mother", because there simply doesn't exist "your mama" insults in the swedish culture. Swedes traditionally don't use sexual insults. Even though the country is extremely secular the worst things you could say were stuff like "Satan take you!". It sounds silly but it's true.

Middle-easterners also introduced gay rapes as well as group rapes. None of this existed before they came but today gangrapes is a widespread phenomenon and many girls are victimized every year. Of course it's not just muslims but rather middle easterners in general. A rape league of christian assyrians who pulled 12 year old girls into cars and gangraped them were sentenced to prison a few weeks ago.

Cultural exchange is healthy, mass immigration is the cultural equivalent of leukemia.