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BenderRodriguez
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12 Jul 2016, 10:55 am

I have no issue with him or anyone else having faith or following the teaching and values of their religion. I have an issue with them saying "everybody should do so because it says in the Bible/Koran/whatever". And thinking that anybody would read the Bible and become a follower is just unrealistic. I've met more people who believe in the book without ever reading it than the other way around, not that it makes much difference since it is a matter of faith.

kraftiekortie wrote:
The Bible is much better than something like Mein Kampf (or even Das Kapital).


Do you really want to go there, Kraftie? :twisted:


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BenderRodriguez
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12 Jul 2016, 11:04 am

dcj123 wrote:

Nothing in my post suggested you don't have free will, you can believe whatever you want, I really don't care, I was merely stating what Christian doctrine actually says. I could care less what others believe but if someone is actually interested in Christianity. I was merely saying I recommended reading the bible yourself and things will become more clear and I was explaining how its more clear to me, I don't really care how other people interpret it. I was also stating that its original intention is peaceful. Regardless of if homosexuality is a sin, Christians are peaceful in our beliefs whatever they may be or we are suppose to be. Now as I was saying, nothing in bible says its okay to shoot up a bunch of homosexuals. The doctrine merely list homosexuality as something that will eventually bring about pain. How it does that doesn't matter, there maybe nothing wrong with it but maybe whats its referring to is the pain that comes from discrimination, separation and the divide it brings to people. Like I said the doctrine says to trust God and if you do then you know that if he tells you not to do something, its only to protect from some consequence. That is all I was saying, where you got that I infringed upon your free will I don't know.


Well, if I misinterpreted what you were saying, I apologise. I admit I'm tired and English is not my first language so maybe I misunderstood. I wasn't complaining about you personally infringing upon my free will, as much as people demanding everybody to follow "their own" value/moral system, be it based on religion or any other kind of doctrine. Or claiming "homosexuality is a sin" to be fact, instead of an opinion and demanding the law to reflect that.


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dcj123
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12 Jul 2016, 11:15 am

BenderRodriguez wrote:
Or claiming "homosexuality is a sin" to be fact, instead of an opinion and demanding the law to reflect that.


I did suggest that but I didn't demand the law reflect it, I did however say that regardless of what someones opinion is on homosexuality, they are to be treated with love and respect. So if anything the law should be free and open and accepting of homosexuality, I do not think they should be treated any less in society. However, I was saying that if just if homosexuality is a sin which is what is stated unless someone tampered with the doctrine then the end result of it is pain.

The end result of sin is pain, that is the point. Loving your neighbor ranks higher in God's commandments.



BenderRodriguez
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12 Jul 2016, 11:38 am

Just wanted to add: Personally, I see no reason why homosexual relationships would bring more pain/suffering then sexual relationships can anyway (pain is unavoidable, it's part of life). And as far as I'm concerned, taking responsibility for your actions and dealing with the consequences of said actions (mistakes included) is one of the best way of learning. I know from experience, especially with my kids, how tricky and downright dangerous things can get when you try to protect people to the point of not allowing them to make their own decisions and mistakes and learn from the outcome.

But from your last post, I think I might understand better what you mean. As long as it's a live and let live situation, of course I have no issues with what you believe and what standards you impose on yourself, although I notice this struggle seems to cause you pain and distress.


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kraftiekortie
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12 Jul 2016, 12:32 pm

I'm not anti-Communist, per se. I just don't believe in some of the precepts of historical determinism....of that amorphous entity know as the "masses."

I believe in individual initiative and incentive. Socialistic-Communistic governments took that away. And mostly established oligarchy.

Yes, capitalism has its evils, too. It's out of control. But I would not replace it with Marxism.

I'm an atheist, by the way.

In my politics, I'm closest to.a democratic socialist. I don't adhere to most conservative precepts.



kraftiekortie
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12 Jul 2016, 1:08 pm

It was wrong of me to equate Das Kapital with Mein Kampf.



dcj123
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12 Jul 2016, 1:35 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
It was wrong of me to equate Das Kapital with Mein Kampf.


Don't worry its not any worse then The_Blonde_Alien telling me I am mentally unstable because I read the only book that gives me prospective never mind the fact I was mentally unstable long before I was ever Christian or the suggestion that I am some kind of a Nazi because I read the bible. Also we are all autistic, I think the number of people who have some kinda of mental instability here is going to be higher then the general population.



kraftiekortie
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12 Jul 2016, 6:15 pm

But it still wasn't cool.

Even as an autistic person, one has to strive to be better.



naturalplastic
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12 Jul 2016, 6:25 pm

dcj123 wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
It was wrong of me to equate Das Kapital with Mein Kampf.


Don't worry its not any worse then The_Blonde_Alien telling me I am mentally unstable because I read the only book that gives me prospective


"prospective" is an adjective (Trump, and Clinton, are our two prospective next presidents.).

You must have meant "perspective" ( the illusion of depth in a picture, or by extension any view of things).



kraftiekortie
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12 Jul 2016, 6:27 pm

Of course he meant "perspective."



Darmok
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12 Jul 2016, 6:28 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
It was wrong of me to equate Das Kapital with Mein Kampf.


Not at all. They are books promoting two of the most evil ideas in human history.

(In some circles this would count as an unpopular political view.)


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kraftiekortie
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12 Jul 2016, 6:34 pm

The difference: Karl Marx had decent intentions; Hitler did not.

Hitler was rejected by his favorite art school, and did not rise above corporal in the German Army during World War One. He needed a scapegoat, and he found it: The Jews.

Marx felt like the working classes should rise up against tyranny. He also believe their collective anger would help bring about positive change. He could not foresee that his views would ultimately be used to justify tyranny.

I'm not an advocate of historical determinism--but I understand the basis for it.



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12 Jul 2016, 8:20 pm

ISIS is just a continuation of Al-Qaeda.


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dcj123
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12 Jul 2016, 8:51 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
dcj123 wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
It was wrong of me to equate Das Kapital with Mein Kampf.


Don't worry its not any worse then The_Blonde_Alien telling me I am mentally unstable because I read the only book that gives me prospective


"prospective" is an adjective (Trump, and Clinton, are our two prospective next presidents.).

You must have meant "perspective" ( the illusion of depth in a picture, or by extension any view of things).


News flash,

I am autistic as hell and I actually can't spell 90% of what I write here, in fact I can't write on paper for this reason along with the fact I can't read or write cursive. Typing is the only way I can write coherently so be glad I can get my point across at all. However, yes I mean perspective, the two words looked the same to me until you said something.



BenderRodriguez
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13 Jul 2016, 4:46 pm

I think soliciting donations/trying to sell things outside dedicated venues should be illegal - no phone calls, house calls or harassing people on the street. At least not for any kind of group, company or organisation, as I'm not against individual persons asking for money for themselves.

Same goes for missionarism, proselytism and any form of activism, it should be restricted to venues and events where people go voluntarily. Going to somebody else's house/country and trying to change their religion or vote is on par with going into somebody's home uninvited and sh*****g on their floor. Advertising and organising events where people get to promote their religion, ideology, cause or agenda of choice would be perfectly fine and actually welcomed.


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kraftiekortie
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13 Jul 2016, 5:47 pm

I bet you got woken up by a Jehovah's Witness!

That's happened to me too many times!

Once you talk to them, they are okay people--but their beliefs are outrageous.

By the way, I thought about it afterwards...and I realize how ridiculous it is to even remotely compare Mein Kampf and Das Kapital.