The "Black Hole" of woke....

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cyberdad
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02 Sep 2022, 3:35 am

Nades wrote:

cyberdad wrote:

Read the article. Passive aggression and microaggression is normal experience of most people who are " visibly different". I'm not asking you to change your behaviour toward somebody who is trans, but don't be surprised how they react when you misgender them in speech.

It's not an article. It's a link to take part in a survey that appears yet to be finished.

Again, you failed to answer where the aggression is in a "microaggression"

Oh fiddlesticks....all of these articles are blocked as they need subscription. well, take my word for it then.
People who distinguishably physically not mainstream are subject to constant microaggressions which are the equivalent in the brain to physical assault.

It's a scientific fact that social injury (name calling, slurs and microaggressions) result in physical pain https://www.apa.org/monitor/2012/04/rejection

cyberdad
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02 Sep 2022, 3:36 am

itscomplicated wrote:

what do you define as the extreme activists in this instance?

outliers

Nades
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02 Sep 2022, 4:15 am

cyberdad wrote:

Nades wrote:

cyberdad wrote:

It's not an article. It's a link to take part in a survey that appears yet to be finished.

Again, you failed to answer where the aggression is in a "microaggression"

They didn't link it to physical pain whatsoever. Just because brain activity suggests pain doesn't actually mean someone's in pain.

This is a classic case of seeing far too much meaning in limited data.

cyberdad
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02 Sep 2022, 5:27 am

Nades wrote:

This is a classic case of seeing far too much meaning in limited data.

It's not really open to debate anyway since it's scientific fact. The MAGAs think trans people should toughen up but their little darllings will wilt like snowflakes if they are taught to think critically in school :roll:

kraftiekortie
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02 Sep 2022, 6:10 am

It’s just stupid to insult people—whether they’re in physical pain or not.

Nades
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02 Sep 2022, 7:13 am

cyberdad wrote:

Nades wrote:

This is a classic case of seeing far too much meaning in limited data.

It's open to a lot of debate. Are you aware of what those parts of the brain do besides showing increased activity if physical pain is inflicted?

I have the feeling you've taken this discovery (and I mean it loosely) literally. Those parts of brain do countless other activities besides pain that you failed to take any regard to.

DW_a_mom
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02 Sep 2022, 9:16 pm

Nades wrote:

cyberdad wrote:

Nades wrote:

This is a classic case of seeing far too much meaning in limited data.

What is not open for debate, not subject to scientific concepts that might feel squishy to us laymen? The higher suicide rates among the LGBTQ community. Work backwards from there and figure out what's causing them so much internal pain they don't want to live anymore.

THAT is the reason society as a whole should pay attention to the hurts they are experiencing.

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Dox47
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02 Sep 2022, 10:06 pm

DW_a_mom wrote:

Perhaps you could post some numbers to support this? Also, one of those letters is not like the others, and it skews this whole debate arbitrarily lumping them together.

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DW_a_mom
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03 Sep 2022, 1:04 am

Dox47 wrote:

DW_a_mom wrote:

Perhaps you could post some numbers to support this? Also, one of those letters is not like the others, and it skews this whole debate arbitrarily lumping them together.

I realize each letter is a unique population, but there are a lot of nuances in the numbers I didn't feel I needed to detail to write my point. I usually write prolifically when I'm sharing personal thoughts, kind of thinking out loud on paper, and I really wasn't in the mood for that. Besides, I honestly didn't realize there was anyone who wasn't aware of the increased risk. I thought I was stating a well known fact.

Here is some detailed discussion:

https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/ ... dia-alert/

https://www.newportacademy.com/resource ... ide-rates/

The numbers are quite staggering. 17% v. 2.4% (that is a POINT 4, not a 24%) is not a minor difference.

It's an issue that is hugely important to my daughter, and one of the drivers to her going into psychology. I also have a relative who runs a LGBTQ mental health center with the goal of reducing the outsized suicide risk among the population. Brilliant individual with a PHD who could have done anything, and that non-profit is his chosen life's work.

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cyberdad
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03 Sep 2022, 3:14 am

Dox47 wrote:

DW_a_mom wrote:

Perhaps you could post some numbers to support this? Also, one of those letters is not like the others, and it skews this whole debate arbitrarily lumping them together.

Again why are you playing ignorant? it's a well known fact that there is higher suicide rates in LGBTQI and the rate is highest in trans teens.

cyberdad
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03 Sep 2022, 3:18 am

Nades wrote:

I have the feeling you've taken this discovery (and I mean it loosely) literally. Those parts of brain do countless other activities besides pain that you failed to take any regard to.

Pain leads to suffering which leads to mental breakdown. Let me put it another way. If I had the option to be courteous and respectful to a trans person OR "stand my ground" and say anything I want under the guise of freedom of speech knowing I'm hurting them intentionally....it's kind of like choosing to be a decent human being Vs being a psychopath

Nades
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03 Sep 2022, 3:48 am

cyberdad wrote:

Nades wrote:

I have the feeling you've taken this discovery (and I mean it loosely) literally. Those parts of brain do countless other activities besides pain that you failed to take any regard to.

They don't even know it is pain though. Did you acknowledge anything I said?

Freedom of speech is saying anything you like provided it doesn't infringes on the rights of others. Refusing to adopt a pronoun because it doesn't make sense to an individual falls well short infringing on someone's rights.

It's weird how such a debate like this even kicks off on WP. A website full of people who by their nature of having autism are rigidly logical being told their logic is now a problem ironically by a large chunk of the autistic community themselves.

DW_a_mom
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03 Sep 2022, 4:56 am

Nades wrote:

Freedom of speech is saying anything you like provided it doesn't infringes on the rights of others. Refusing to adopt a pronoun because it doesn't make sense to an individual falls well short infringing on someone's rights.

It's weird how such a debate like this even kicks off on WP. A website full of people who by their nature of having autism are rigidly logical being told their logic is now a problem ironically by a large chunk of the autistic community themselves.

Freedom of speech is freedom from government consequences, but the government can’t stop the general public from issuing social sanctions.

Not to say I agree with social sanctions, just pointing out the legality.

FYI There is a large overlap between the autistic community and the gender fluid community.

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Nades
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03 Sep 2022, 6:08 am

DW_a_mom wrote:

Nades wrote:

Social sanctions are not necessarily legal either. Civil fines and even criminal convictions have been given to those who have unfairly harassed people for their tepid opinions on the assumption it's for the greater social good.

It's been known for a long time that trans people are disproportionally likely to be autistic. WP have known it for many years including me (until I mentioned the correlation and for some reason many people objected a few months back, probably because I said it)

Biscuitman
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03 Sep 2022, 8:14 am

In the UK we don't have freedom of speech. Instead we have Freedom Of Expression law, which limits the extremes of what people can publicly say based on our Hate Speech law.

I actually prefer our model here rather than freedom of speech.

Nades
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03 Sep 2022, 8:26 am

Biscuitman wrote:

It's the same in most place. Common law precedents on the limits of speech (or the ability to create them) makes explicit legal limits pointless. Often, governments rely on common law being created at a later date to fill in the gaps by a judge or jury.

Self defence laws in the UK are a good example of this. The government left them intentionally very vague as no two fights will ever be the same. As much as UK self defence laws are slated, there is still no limits on what you can do to defend yourself. Whipping out an illegal machine gun and mowing down 10 people could still be legal here if the jury decides the circumstances (clearly horrifyingly grave) warrants it.

I watched a popular TV series here called 24 hours in police custody where a teen stabbed one person to death with a knife and injured a second. He was found not guilty by a jury (despite illegally carrying a knife and intending to do a drug deal) . What happened is that two homeless people intended to jump him for his drugs and money and stabbed him with a glass bottle. He stabbed back with his knife, killing one.

The jury though this was fair and found him innocent and now this case is in common law.

Woke warriors beware...it applies to civil law too so don't assume the law will save you when one decides another is a legitimate target.

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