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Nobody interested in the Russia-Ukraine conflict?

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funeralxempire
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29 Mar 2022, 9:36 pm

ironpony wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
ironpony wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Oh okay. But it seems that Russian military has now had time to find out this is more than 'just an operation' yet they are still following orders though.


Many of them, yes.. because they are soldiers and following orders as soldiers are supposed to do.

But not all of them. There are people giving up, even some that ran their own commander over with a tank and cut his legs off and he reportedly died - because they were so made that he sent 1500 troops into battle without a plan and half of them were killed quickly.

Overall you can’t just expect soldiers to have thoughts of their own and a moral compass - they’re trained to be killing machines that do what they’re ordered to do. All countries’ soldiers are like this, of they weren’t we wouldn’t have any successful armies.


That's a good point. Interesting about the commander run over by his own man. Why didn't the man just kill him with a knife or a gun instead of trying to run him down with a tank, which would have taken more effort?


Perhaps the vehicle was the closest weapon at hand or there was hope of concealing who was personally/individually responsible.


Oh okay I thought soldiers would at least have a knife or a sidearm pistol on them normally at all times, just in case.


I think you'd have to ask the guy who did it if you want to know what went on in his mind, I'm just giving potential explanations.

Although, squishing someone with a tank is both highly likely to be effective while also gruesome enough to act as a broader message.

In Vietnam the Yanks would throw a grenade into where ever the officer they needed to sort out was.


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29 Mar 2022, 9:43 pm

Oh okay, but why did they leave the guy alive after squishing him with the tank? Leaving him alive, means he can talk about it and incriminate the guy who did it, unless they want him to talk about it?



funeralxempire
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29 Mar 2022, 9:53 pm

ironpony wrote:
Oh okay, but why did they leave the guy alive after squishing him with the tank? Leaving him alive, means he can talk about it and incriminate the guy who did it, unless they want him to talk about it?


I wouldn't assume his survival was the intended result.
I mean, if you squished someone with a tank your goal would be to kill them, right?

I'd anticipate that wasn't planned for but is just the result of the officer trying and failing to get out of the way.
If someone was trying to run you over with a tank you'd try to dodge, right?


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Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.


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30 Mar 2022, 12:36 am

ironpony wrote:
Oh okay I thought soldiers would at least have a knife or a sidearm pistol on them normally at all times, just in case.

in most armies the only ones with sidearms [pistols] are the officers/senior NCOs.



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30 Mar 2022, 1:51 am

funeralxempire wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Oh okay, but why did they leave the guy alive after squishing him with the tank? Leaving him alive, means he can talk about it and incriminate the guy who did it, unless they want him to talk about it?


I wouldn't assume his survival was the intended result.
I mean, if you squished someone with a tank your goal would be to kill them, right?

I'd anticipate that wasn't planned for but is just the result of the officer trying and failing to get out of the way.
If someone was trying to run you over with a tank you'd try to dodge, right?


But if the officers intent was to kill the guy with the tank, why didn't he just finish him off, once that he saw that he failed to do what he intended to? Why leave him alive after failing the intention?



funeralxempire
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30 Mar 2022, 2:03 am

ironpony wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Oh okay, but why did they leave the guy alive after squishing him with the tank? Leaving him alive, means he can talk about it and incriminate the guy who did it, unless they want him to talk about it?


I wouldn't assume his survival was the intended result.
I mean, if you squished someone with a tank your goal would be to kill them, right?

I'd anticipate that wasn't planned for but is just the result of the officer trying and failing to get out of the way.
If someone was trying to run you over with a tank you'd try to dodge, right?


But if the officers intent was to kill the guy with the tank, why didn't he just finish him off, once that he saw that he failed to do what he intended to? Why leave him alive after failing the intention?


No idea, I think you'd have to ask the guy who did it. :mrgreen:


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If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.


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30 Mar 2022, 2:08 am

That's true :) What is the fate of this guy though? Has he been arrested, or if anyone knows?



funeralxempire
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30 Mar 2022, 2:38 am

ironpony wrote:
That's true :) What is the fate of this guy though? Has he been arrested, or if anyone knows?


I'm not sure, has he even been identified?


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Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.


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30 Mar 2022, 2:55 am

funeralxempire wrote:
ironpony wrote:
That's true :) What is the fate of this guy though? Has he been arrested, or if anyone knows?


I'm not sure, has he even been identified?


Oh I guess it doesn't look like it. I wonder if any Russian soldiers who don't agree with the war will end up joining the Ukrainians to keep from being punished by their own government?



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30 Mar 2022, 3:17 am

ironpony wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
ironpony wrote:
That's true :) What is the fate of this guy though? Has he been arrested, or if anyone knows?


I'm not sure, has he even been identified?


Oh I guess it doesn't look like it. I wonder if any Russian soldiers who don't agree with the war will end up joining the Ukrainians to keep from being punished by their own government?


I'm not sure how they'd handle that because it would be difficult to integrate them, especially if there's worries over their loyalty.


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The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.


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30 Mar 2022, 4:26 am

ironpony wrote:
Oh I guess it doesn't look like it. I wonder if any Russian soldiers who don't agree with the war will end up joining the Ukrainians to keep from being punished by their own government?
It seems there is such an option.
https://t.me/legionoffreedom/42 (in Russian)

Ukrainians claim they send Russian volunteers against Chechen units - it makes sense, it's easier to attack Kadyrov guys rather than possibly your own former unit. Morale management is a big factor here.


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30 Mar 2022, 10:26 am

funeralxempire wrote:
ironpony wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
ironpony wrote:
That's true :) What is the fate of this guy though? Has he been arrested, or if anyone knows?


I'm not sure, has he even been identified?


Oh I guess it doesn't look like it. I wonder if any Russian soldiers who don't agree with the war will end up joining the Ukrainians to keep from being punished by their own government?


I'm not sure how they'd handle that because it would be difficult to integrate them, especially if there's worries over their loyalty.


Several pages ago I posted a link about the Ukrainian offer to Russian dissenters that say “Millions.” But hey get asylum and 5 million rubles ($40-50k usd) to just quit on the spot and agree to settle down in Ukraine.


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goldfish21
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30 Mar 2022, 10:26 am

Image


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30 Mar 2022, 10:42 am

funeralxempire wrote:
ironpony wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Oh okay. But it seems that Russian military has now had time to find out this is more than 'just an operation' yet they are still following orders though.


Many of them, yes.. because they are soldiers and following orders as soldiers are supposed to do.

But not all of them. There are people giving up, even some that ran their own commander over with a tank and cut his legs off and he reportedly died - because they were so made that he sent 1500 troops into battle without a plan and half of them were killed quickly.

Overall you can’t just expect soldiers to have thoughts of their own and a moral compass - they’re trained to be killing machines that do what they’re ordered to do. All countries’ soldiers are like this, of they weren’t we wouldn’t have any successful armies.


That's a good point. Interesting about the commander run over by his own man. Why didn't the man just kill him with a knife or a gun instead of trying to run him down with a tank, which would have taken more effort?


Perhaps the vehicle was the closest weapon at hand or there was hope of concealing who was personally/individually responsible.

Ooops I meant to put it in reverse.


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30 Mar 2022, 10:53 am

Misslizard wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
ironpony wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Oh okay. But it seems that Russian military has now had time to find out this is more than 'just an operation' yet they are still following orders though.
Many of them, yes.. because they are soldiers and following orders as soldiers are supposed to do.  But not all of them. There are people giving up, even some that ran their own commander over with a tank and cut his legs off and he reportedly died - because they were so made that he sent 1500 troops into battle without a plan and half of them were killed quickly.  Overall you can’t just expect soldiers to have thoughts of their own and a moral compass - they’re trained to be killing machines that do what they’re ordered to do. All countries’ soldiers are like this, of they weren’t we wouldn’t have any successful armies.
That's a good point. Interesting about the commander run over by his own man. Why didn't the man just kill him with a knife or a gun instead of trying to run him down with a tank, which would have taken more effort?
Perhaps the vehicle was the closest weapon at hand or there was hope of concealing who was personally/individually responsible.
Ooops I meant to put it in reverse.
<You felt squishy bump, Ivan?>
<Nyet>
<Me neither.  Drive on!>



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30 Mar 2022, 10:55 am

https://twitter.com/_MJMoody_/status/15 ... qMArTsVieA


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