The "Black Hole" of woke....

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Even if the exact statistics are not reliable, it does seem at least plausible to me that GLB young people would be at higher risk of suicide than heterosexual young people. Is there a reason why this does not seem plausible to you?

You misunderstand, I don't think it's implausible at all, what I object to is twofold, the conflation of LGB and T people, which despite some surface level similarities I do consider to be distinct groups,

and the "it's the SCIENCE!" rhetorical cudgeling, when the actual science is so unsettled.

Actually, I'll add a third thing, the way this elevated suicide risk is weaponized into "if you don't give in to our demands, people are going to kill themselves, so you're a monster if you don't do what we say", I find that very objectionable.

So you don't think it's justified to point out the likely human consequences of a given course of action? Or are you just objecting to the impatience and vengefulness of some of today's trans activists?

I reject the reasoning that anyone other than the person who does it is responsible for a suicide, it's always a choice.

Suicide is typically an effect of unbearable suffering.

Even if the final decision can been made differently, high suicide rate in a group indicates enormous suffering is common there.

Other people definitely can be responsible for adding to one's suffering and poor mental health - which may or may not lead to a suicide of a particular person but does increase a risk of it.

I reject the reasoning that anyone other than the person who does it is responsible for a suicide, it's always a choice.

Cold. While on a "dot the i" technical level that is true, others can help create conditions that encourage an individual to feel they have no choice. I believe we have a moral duty to at least care whether or not our actions might end up encouraging an individual to feel they have no choice but to end their life. I believe we have a moral duty to desire and work to form a society that doesn't end up encouraging an individual to feel they have no choice but to end their life. Neglect can be a form of action with predictable negative consequences. I believe we have a moral duty, within each of our own limited abilities and awareness, to avoid engaging in such neglect.

Where does it end though? You're handing everyone around you a license to exercise power over you by waving the suicide card, and there's no limiting factor once you go down that path, everything you do might be the straw that breaks the camel's back for someone. I'm not saying everyone should be jerks to everyone else, what I'm saying is that there needs to be a limit on what we'll accept being asked to do to accommodate the idiosyncrasies of others, I think we've already gone too far on that front.

Well, depending on how you classify mental health issues, that may or may not be true, as many people suffer but most of them don't kill themselves.

You're still a long way from "if you don't accede to our demands people are going to kill themselves", which is a very common rhetorical attack when this subject comes up.

Wokism is difficult to navigate. On the one one hand it may be a seemingly overcorrecttion for predidices perspectives, but it also hinders productive conversations.

I don't know.

Wokism is difficult to navigate. On the one one hand it may be a seemingly overcorrecttion for predidices perspectives, but it also hinders productive conversations.

I don't know.

I'm not saying everyone should be jerks to everyone else, what I'm saying is that there needs to be a limit on what we'll accept being asked to do to accommodate the idiosyncrasies of others, I think we've already gone too far on that front.

It ends when the effort is taking from you what you don't have available to give. The line is different for everyone.

I'm not intending to go there if you are not intending to willfully offend people.

I interpret political correctness as kind of updated good manners. Good manners are designed for social life to go smoothly but some would make a scene if they saw you holding your fork a wrong way. You can extrapolate this simile if you want.

This is always how it's sold, but I don't think the comparison holds when the "good manners" are being written into HR rules and sometimes codified into law, such as in the UK where people have actually been arrested for online misgendering. No one ever got arrested for using the wrong spoon for the soup.

The substance of the offence was comments she had made on Twitter about Stephanie Hayden, a transgender woman and self-styled activist in the “women’s rights vs transgender rights” debate (which rages fiercely in certain corners of Twitter). Scottow’s comments were not complimentary: in one, she said of Hayden

“This person is not a racist, xenophobic, larping lawyer/transwoman. This person is a crook using the trans façade to ensure they aren’t caught. A pig in a wig.”

The majority of the comments were made about, not to, Ms Hayden; Scottow did not tag her into the tweets (this is a means of ensuring the tagged person sees the tweet); and at the time of some of them, she had in fact blocked Ms Hayden from seeing anything she posted. Ms Hayden was only able to see these tweets by creating a new, non-blocked identity and looking for them.

Nonetheless, in late 2018 Hayden went to the police, alleging harassment; Scottow was arrested and interviewed. There followed a lull of several months in the criminal proceedings, during which time Hayden obtained a wide-ranging injunction preventing Scottow from publishing personal information about Hayden, “misgendering” her on social media, referring to her previous male identity or implying that she was racist.

Then in March 2019, Scottow (using a new Twitter identity) had a conversation online with Hayden about the injunction. Hayden was initially unaware that Scottow was behind the new identity, and made no objection to the comments (which were argumentative but not insulting). On learning the identity of the user, however, she reported these comments to the police as well as further evidence of harassment. Scottow was interviewed for a second time, and charged with the s127(2)(c) offence.