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If a girl is raped and pregnant, should she keep the baby?

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mechanicalgirl39
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31 Aug 2011, 11:50 am

Inuyasha wrote:
Knifey wrote:
i dont think potential life is life. so if the "baby" is just a mass of cells with no brain it's not a baby. i think this gives you plenty of time to stop the potential life. on the other hand if you wait until its kicking you from the inside, too bad you should have gotten tested when you were raped.


There is brain activity 48 days after conception (in spite of what LKL has claimed, the facts are the facts), I've said my stance is once there is brain activity no matter how simplistic, we are dealing with another human being's life.

Abortion is not self-defense, it is murder plain and simple, the child did not ask to be inside the woman's body and intends to leave as soon as he/she can do so safely.

While women here are claiming they have a right to choose what's going on in their bodies and whether or not they can have an abortion, sorry but while you have rights to your body, you don't have the right to murder a child whom is not your body and happens to be stuck in your body for 8.5 months through no fault of his/her own. Your rights end where the child's rights begin, the child has just as much of a right to live as you do.

As for the claims the child is not a person, what makes you a person then?


More slush.

It's self defense because while the 'child' as you so hysterically insist on calling it cannot help the situation she nonetheless has the right to protect her body.

Let me put it this way. If you are locked in a room with a 280 pound low functioning autistic kid who cannot help having meltdowns and attacking people are you obliged to just let him beat you up because he can't help it? No.


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31 Aug 2011, 11:53 am

mechanicalgirl39 wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
Knifey wrote:
i dont think potential life is life. so if the "baby" is just a mass of cells with no brain it's not a baby. i think this gives you plenty of time to stop the potential life. on the other hand if you wait until its kicking you from the inside, too bad you should have gotten tested when you were raped.


There is brain activity 48 days after conception (in spite of what LKL has claimed, the facts are the facts), I've said my stance is once there is brain activity no matter how simplistic, we are dealing with another human being's life.

Abortion is not self-defense, it is murder plain and simple, the child did not ask to be inside the woman's body and intends to leave as soon as he/she can do so safely.

While women here are claiming they have a right to choose what's going on in their bodies and whether or not they can have an abortion, sorry but while you have rights to your body, you don't have the right to murder a child whom is not your body and happens to be stuck in your body for 8.5 months through no fault of his/her own. Your rights end where the child's rights begin, the child has just as much of a right to live as you do.

As for the claims the child is not a person, what makes you a person then?


More slush.

It's self defense because while the 'child' as you so hysterically insist on calling it cannot help the situation she nonetheless has the right to protect her body.

Let me put it this way. If you are locked in a room with a 280 pound low functioning autistic kid who cannot help having meltdowns and attacking people are you obliged to just let him beat you up because he can't help it? No.


You are not obliged to kill him either, and a low-functioning autistic kid doesn't simply have meltdowns to have meltdowns, there has to be something that triggers the meltdown.



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31 Aug 2011, 12:30 pm

Everybody knows sometimes for what appear even by God's standards to be good and sufficient reasons - which it is not for me to lay out - it is necessary to take a person's life.

Everybody knows sometimes it is appropriate to take the life of a non-human animal.

Everybody knows sometimes you have to destroy a plant.

We may disagree on how and when, but we all agree that just as all life must die, humans will and may and sometimes must take life.

So why not just say:

This crazy knife wielding attacker I just shot is a human I killed.

This serial killer I just gavre a lethal injection is a human I killed.

This collection of cells I just destroyed for my own safety and convenience...

A. is a mosquito I smashed just before it could bite me

B. is a strawbrry I felt like eating.

C. is a fish I felt like eating

D. is a human enemy of the state I serve

E. is my beloved cancer-ridden human mother

F. is a [find your own word, I'm fed up with the word play] to whom I would rather not give birth.

G. is a [find your own word, I'm fed up with the word play] who would be severely ret*d if born.

It is the pussyfooting around with piddling distinctions and weasel justifications that gets me more than the act - of which, take what you like and pay for it, says God, and who am I to disagree?



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31 Aug 2011, 2:32 pm

Philologos, that assembly of cells or tissues is human (adj), but it is not yet a human (noun).



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31 Aug 2011, 3:23 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
There is brain activity 48 days after conception

Please note that when Inuyasha says brain activity he means just that , 'activity' . nervous cells getting some electricity.

If it was for him, you would assume that brain activity means that it is a baby thinking about when he is going to finally get out of the womb so that he can drink milk and dream about becoming an astronaut. The reality is that activity and thought are hardly the same thing. More so, since there are no thalamic connections to the brain until the 26-th week, then it is rather ridiculous to assume it is anything close to human levels of brain structure. For starters it has no grasp of the environment.


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31 Aug 2011, 3:32 pm

LKL wrote:
Philologos, that assembly of cells or tissues is human (adj), but it is not yet a human (noun).


Not certainly so, since we have not yet done our requisite set of definitions. I am not personally pushing any set of definitions, just it might be nice. For me it is very hard to conceive [you will pardon the word] of a point where nonhuman becomes human or where human ceases to be human other than conception and death. But you may have evidence bearing on the subject.

I put it to you, though, there is a big difference between "that assembly of cells" and the assembly of human cells that was removed the night I had appendicitis,



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31 Aug 2011, 3:34 pm

Vexcalibur wrote:

If it was for him, you would assume that brain activity means that it is a baby thinking about when he is going to finally get out of the womb so that he can drink milk and dream about becoming an astronaut. .


:lmao:


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31 Aug 2011, 7:50 pm

mechanicalgirl39 wrote:
More slush.

It's self defense because while the 'child' as you so hysterically insist on calling it cannot help the situation she nonetheless has the right to protect her body.

Let me put it this way. If you are locked in a room with a 280 pound low functioning autistic kid who cannot help having meltdowns and attacking people are you obliged to just let him beat you up because he can't help it? No.
Since when are we talking about the baby hurting the mother? The OP just said if the baby is put there involuntarily. I was under the impression we were to talk about this as though the mother was in no danger of physical harm so your analogy is non applicable.


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31 Aug 2011, 9:09 pm

LKL wrote:
Philologos, that assembly of cells or tissues is human (adj), but it is not yet a human (noun).


And what makes you a person?


My definition is the instant there is brain activity, we are dealing with another human life. That occurs 48 days after conception, I don't particularly care how simplistic it is, all that matters is the fact there is brain activity.



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31 Aug 2011, 11:16 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
LKL wrote:
Philologos, that assembly of cells or tissues is human (adj), but it is not yet a human (noun).


And what makes you a person?


My definition is the instant there is brain activity, we are dealing with another human life. That occurs 48 days after conception, I don't particularly care how simplistic it is, all that matters is the fact there is brain activity.


According to you, LKL would not have the rights of a person were she pregnant. That is, the right to do with her body as she sees fit.

So, what makes you think a pregnant woman is not a person? Or is it just that you think of a pregnant woman as less of a person than a zef?



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31 Aug 2011, 11:30 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
LKL wrote:
Philologos, that assembly of cells or tissues is human (adj), but it is not yet a human (noun).


And what makes you a person?

Well, gosh. Let's see.
For starters, I am sentient. I am sapient. I have enough of a brain to have a personality.



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01 Sep 2011, 2:25 am

cave_canem wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
LKL wrote:
Philologos, that assembly of cells or tissues is human (adj), but it is not yet a human (noun).


And what makes you a person?


My definition is the instant there is brain activity, we are dealing with another human life. That occurs 48 days after conception, I don't particularly care how simplistic it is, all that matters is the fact there is brain activity.


According to you, LKL would not have the rights of a person were she pregnant. That is, the right to do with her body as she sees fit.

So, what makes you think a pregnant woman is not a person? Or is it just that you think of a pregnant woman as less of a person than a zef?


As with everybody on the face of the earth, we can do what ever we want to our bodies without considering other people, as long as it does not impact another person. Just like I can go around swinging my fist, but as soon as it could impact somebody elses face I am no longer free to swing it. Such is a womans body that contains a baby, once that baby is capable of brain activity then the woman is no longer free to do what ever she wants with "her" body as it will impact the body inside her which is no longer considered an extension of herself but a being in its own right who has no choice but to be attached for another 8.5 months.


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01 Sep 2011, 3:08 am

^Even if you consider the zef a "person," the reciprocal is also true: the zef's rights end where they impact another person, namely the mother.



mechanicalgirl39
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01 Sep 2011, 5:27 am

Inuyasha wrote:
mechanicalgirl39 wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
Knifey wrote:
i dont think potential life is life. so if the "baby" is just a mass of cells with no brain it's not a baby. i think this gives you plenty of time to stop the potential life. on the other hand if you wait until its kicking you from the inside, too bad you should have gotten tested when you were raped.


There is brain activity 48 days after conception (in spite of what LKL has claimed, the facts are the facts), I've said my stance is once there is brain activity no matter how simplistic, we are dealing with another human being's life.

Abortion is not self-defense, it is murder plain and simple, the child did not ask to be inside the woman's body and intends to leave as soon as he/she can do so safely.

While women here are claiming they have a right to choose what's going on in their bodies and whether or not they can have an abortion, sorry but while you have rights to your body, you don't have the right to murder a child whom is not your body and happens to be stuck in your body for 8.5 months through no fault of his/her own. Your rights end where the child's rights begin, the child has just as much of a right to live as you do.

As for the claims the child is not a person, what makes you a person then?


More slush.

It's self defense because while the 'child' as you so hysterically insist on calling it cannot help the situation she nonetheless has the right to protect her body.

Let me put it this way. If you are locked in a room with a 280 pound low functioning autistic kid who cannot help having meltdowns and attacking people are you obliged to just let him beat you up because he can't help it? No.


You are not obliged to kill him either, and a low-functioning autistic kid doesn't simply have meltdowns to have meltdowns, there has to be something that triggers the meltdown.


Nope. Some just occur like seizures.

In addition, you've missed my point. Just because something cannot help its situation does not mean you are obliged to simply let it harm or violate you.


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mechanicalgirl39
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01 Sep 2011, 5:28 am

Knifey wrote:
mechanicalgirl39 wrote:
More slush.

It's self defense because while the 'child' as you so hysterically insist on calling it cannot help the situation she nonetheless has the right to protect her body.

Let me put it this way. If you are locked in a room with a 280 pound low functioning autistic kid who cannot help having meltdowns and attacking people are you obliged to just let him beat you up because he can't help it? No.
Since when are we talking about the baby hurting the mother? The OP just said if the baby is put there involuntarily. I was under the impression we were to talk about this as though the mother was in no danger of physical harm so your analogy is non applicable.


Pregnancy IS physical harm.


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01 Sep 2011, 6:53 am

mechanicalgirl39 wrote:
Pregnancy IS physical harm.
So argue your case as I don't know one person who agrees with you.


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