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Nobody interested in the Russia-Ukraine conflict?

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magz
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04 Apr 2022, 9:49 am

Well, our politicians are even less trustworthy but we have to make do with the material we have because the pretend-play is over, Putin's Russia is a real horror.


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kraftiekortie
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04 Apr 2022, 10:04 am

If only Russia had a non-Soviet Gorbachev....

Putin wants to go back to the Medieval way of doing things......



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05 Apr 2022, 11:35 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
If only Russia had a non-Soviet Gorbachev....

Putin wants to go back to the Medieval way of doing things......


The issue is that they'd need to want that guy, and based on how they view Gorbachev it's unlikely they'd want a second one.


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05 Apr 2022, 11:39 am

https://twitter.com/sumlenny/status/1510910740261134338
https://ria.ru/20220403/ukraina-1781469605.html

Quote:
THREAD: Russian state-owned propaganda outlet RIA published the new programmatic article with the title "What Russia must do with Ukraine". The article reveals a detailed plan for a genocide, starting from full elimination of Ukrainian state. Details below.

1) it calls almost every Ukrainian a Nazi who deserves death. "Nazis who took weapons, must be killed in numbers as much as possible... Not just the elites, the most of the people are guilty, they are passive Nazis, Nazi enablers. They supported these elites and must be punished"

2) It foresees tyrannic approach to culture. "Further denacification of the mass of the population is to be reached through ideological repression (oppression) of Nazi ideas and through harsh censorship: not only in politics, but in culture and education areas".

3) it foresees economic and political destruction of Ukraine: "Ukraine must pay for its guilt towards Russia. It must be treated as an enemy, and therefore may develop only in dependency to Russia. No "Marshall plan" may happen. No "neutrality" both ideological or practical".

4) A tyrannical future emerges: "Personnel providing denazification in new denazified republics (plural! - Sumlenny) cannot act on another way but only with direct military-police and management support from Russia. Denazification must be a Deukrainisation".

5) Ukraine is the enemy: "The history has proven: Ukraine may not exist as a national state. Any attempt to create it leads to Nazism. Ukrainism is an artificial anti-Russian construct... De-banderisation is not enough... Denazification of Ukraine must be De-Europeazation of it".

6) Deliberate targeting of civilians: "The Bandera-elites must be liquidated, they cannot be re-educated. The social "swamp" who supported them must experience terror of war and learn the lesson, and pay for its guilt".


I'm sure there will still be people who make excuses for Russia's goals of wiping the Ukrainian nation and people from the face of the earth, or trying to insist that the blame actually lies with parties other than Russia but hopefully we can all recognize how little credibility they have.


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05 Apr 2022, 11:41 am

kitesandtrainsandcats wrote:
Mikah wrote:
Peter Hitchens on the ball as usual in his Sunday column
...
I am sorry to say that there are people in the USA who will not be sad if this war drags on.


While I do not immediately know who they would be and do not know their specific goals and desires, it is not the least bit astonishing that such people would exist.


People who own shares of Lockheed-Martin, Raytheon, Boeing, Airbus, etc.


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Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.


magz
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05 Apr 2022, 11:47 am

funeralxempire wrote:
https://twitter.com/sumlenny/status/1510910740261134338
https://ria.ru/20220403/ukraina-1781469605.html

Quote:
THREAD: Russian state-owned propaganda outlet RIA published the new programmatic article with the title "What Russia must do with Ukraine". The article reveals a detailed plan for a genocide, starting from full elimination of Ukrainian state. Details below.

1) it calls almost every Ukrainian a Nazi who deserves death. "Nazis who took weapons, must be killed in numbers as much as possible... Not just the elites, the most of the people are guilty, they are passive Nazis, Nazi enablers. They supported these elites and must be punished"

2) It foresees tyrannic approach to culture. "Further denacification of the mass of the population is to be reached through ideological repression (oppression) of Nazi ideas and through harsh censorship: not only in politics, but in culture and education areas".

3) it foresees economic and political destruction of Ukraine: "Ukraine must pay for its guilt towards Russia. It must be treated as an enemy, and therefore may develop only in dependency to Russia. No "Marshall plan" may happen. No "neutrality" both ideological or practical".

4) A tyrannical future emerges: "Personnel providing denazification in new denazified republics (plural! - Sumlenny) cannot act on another way but only with direct military-police and management support from Russia. Denazification must be a Deukrainisation".

5) Ukraine is the enemy: "The history has proven: Ukraine may not exist as a national state. Any attempt to create it leads to Nazism. Ukrainism is an artificial anti-Russian construct... De-banderisation is not enough... Denazification of Ukraine must be De-Europeazation of it".

6) Deliberate targeting of civilians: "The Bandera-elites must be liquidated, they cannot be re-educated. The social "swamp" who supported them must experience terror of war and learn the lesson, and pay for its guilt".


I'm sure there will still be people who make excuses for Russia's goals of wiping the Ukrainian nation and people from the face of the earth, or trying to insist that the blame actually lies with parties other than Russia but hopefully we can all recognize how little credibility they have.
I just saw this article, too.
The most horrible thing about it is, they are showing readiness to do it.
Nazi plan of systematic genocide calling itself "denazification".


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ironpony
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05 Apr 2022, 11:52 am

Why do Russians hate Ukrainian so much that they're willing to kill civilians and rape women and children if that's what's going on. What is causing that hate?



magz
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05 Apr 2022, 11:57 am

ironpony wrote:
Why do Russians hate Ukrainian so much that they're willing to kill civilians and rape women and children if that's what's going on. What is causing that hate?
Good question. Why did such things happen historically?
A big part of it is likely agressive, hateful propaganda in their media.
That's why "hate speech" is considered so dangerous.


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envirozentinel
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05 Apr 2022, 12:21 pm

We tend to way underestimate how harmful the written or spoken word can be, when used as hateful propaganda. It leads to violence. There are numerous examples of this in fiction and movies as well as real life.


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05 Apr 2022, 12:38 pm

ironpony wrote:
Why do Russians hate Ukrainian so much that they're willing to kill civilians and rape women and children if that's what's going on. What is causing that hate?


I think it's more complicated than just hate. Russians see Ukraine as part of Russia so they see Ukrainians who embrace Ukrainian nationalism as a threat to their nation, even though reasonable people see the Russians as aggressors.

Because they view the people they're victimizing as a threat to themselves, their nation and the well-being of both they find it easy to excuse terrible acts in the same way many military forces have historically. War almost inevitably leads to war crimes and highly indoctrinated forces who've been brutalized as part of their training seem especially prone to committing terrible acts against peoples they've dehumanized.


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Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.


magz
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05 Apr 2022, 1:04 pm

I think the Kremlin regime genuinely fears democracy.
Not seeing Ukrainians as a separate nation, they can't pretend that democracy, transparency, media freedom, individual freedoms and so on are for "rotten west" and are best without these because their ultimate happiness is being a proud empire.
Can you see the consequences of Ukraine becoming practically the West?
What would happen if Russian people realized they could live like that, too? That they could demand life like that?

Kremlin can't let it happen.


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funeralxempire
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05 Apr 2022, 1:06 pm

magz wrote:
I think the Kremlin regime genuinely fears democracy.
Not seeing Ukrainians as a separate nation, they can't pretend that democracy, transparency, media freedom, individual freedoms and so on are for "rotten west" and not for Russians.
Can you see the consequences of it?
What would happen if Russian people realized they could live like that, too?

Kremlin can't let it happen.


Definitely, and all the more so if they see Ukrainians as 'other Russians' because they can't frame it as 'foreign, not Russian' when people they insist are Russians are embracing it and seeing benefits as a result.


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Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.


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05 Apr 2022, 2:52 pm

Am I allowed an opposing viewpoint here ? . .? . Am not pro Russian but . Wearing blinders as to how the west ,USA actually does business under the guise of peace liberty and freedom .. needs serious evaluation , I believe.

Western mass media campaign is the most powerful in the World . Still not denying any conduct regarding accusations of Russias behavior. !
But the USA has toppled many smaller countries duly elected governments , (See CIA World Fact book)
Dominican Republic .. etc .


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magz
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05 Apr 2022, 2:55 pm

^ From my East European perspective:
Then let the trigger-happy Yankees do something right this time. Help us.


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funeralxempire
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05 Apr 2022, 2:55 pm

Jakki wrote:
Am I allowed an opposing viewpoint here ? . .? . Am not pro Russian but . Wearing blinders as to how the west ,USA actually does business under the guise of peace liberty and freedom .. needs serious evaluation , I believe.

Western mass media campaign is the most powerful in the World . Still not denying any conduct regarding accusations of Russias behavior. !
But the USA has toppled many smaller countries duly elected governments , (See CIA World Fact book)
Dominican Republic .. etc .


I call the US out pretty consistently for it's acts of aggression. I'm not sure they're relevant right now to this topic.

At best it sounds like but mommy, Merka did it too.


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If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.


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05 Apr 2022, 3:36 pm

magz wrote:
^ From my East European perspective:
Then let the trigger-happy Yankees do something right this time. Help us.

They won't do more than they are to end things quickly, IMO. I read an article about this a few days back.. it's not just because they don't want to get into full on direct war with another nuclear power, but rather because it's in the USA's best interest that this war lasts as long as possible.. not just for military industrial complex corporations selling weapons and ammunition, but because the longer it lasts, the more Russia depletes it's military capabilities and then can't go messing around with anyone else anywhere else when they don't have the soldiers, vehicles, weapons & bullets to do it with.

Quite sad that the world will sit on the sidelines and watch more and more people die vs. put an end to things, but it makes sense in terms of a longer term military strategy..


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