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ironpony
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06 Jul 2022, 12:08 am

But I think that's really a worst case scenario though, as no states are talking about making it illegal, unless they are?



IsabellaLinton
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06 Jul 2022, 12:10 am

I don't know which state is doing what right now.
It's too confusing and changes every day.

I read this article about Texas:

https://www.houstonpublicmedia.org/arti ... ourt-says/


Sorry to change the subject to domestic violence, but I think this part of another article is worth highlighting:

Image


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cyberdad
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06 Jul 2022, 12:10 am

ironpony wrote:
But I think that's really a worst case scenario though, as no states are talking about making it illegal, unless they are?


That's where the yellow brick road leads...



ironpony
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06 Jul 2022, 12:43 am

Let's say it becomes illegal to kill a fertilized embryo. I don't see why the woman would be charged with murder if too many of the eggs are fertilized. If the clinic causes there to be more than one fertilized egg and there are leftovers, then that's on the clinic and not on the woman donating their eggs.

It's like when a person donates money. Once you've donated, it's not your fault what the people decide to with your money.



IsabellaLinton
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06 Jul 2022, 12:50 am

I don't see why it's murder if a woman conceives one child naturally, via rape or incest, and wishes to abort.

That's not their "fault" either.

Neither are planned / accidental pregnancies that risk the mother's life.
Neither are planned / accidental pregnancies of babies who are severely unwell.

What's the difference, legally?

*I'm not disagreeing with you, but really ... none of this is anyone's fault.


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ironpony
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06 Jul 2022, 1:00 am

Oh yeah, I see what you mean, and I know that none of it is anyone's fault, for sure.

Well before roe vs. wade came about in 1972, in conservative states, what were the consequences for leftover fertilized eggs then? I am guessing that is what they will likely go back to?



IsabellaLinton
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06 Jul 2022, 1:03 am

I don't believe IVF was performed for humans at that time.
The first IVF baby that I remember was born in 1978.


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ironpony
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06 Jul 2022, 1:08 am

Oh okay, I see. So IVF is for women a woman wants to have a kid, but does not want to have sex with a guy so she either accepts spirm for her egg, or she accepts someone else's fertilized egg, if I have that correct?



IsabellaLinton
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06 Jul 2022, 1:16 am

Sometimes, sure.
Sometimes it's single women who don't have a male partner and / or don't want one.
Sometimes it's single (or married) lesbian women who use sperm donors.
Sometimes it's a woman using her ill / deceased partner's frozen sperm, or her own frozen eggs.
Sometimes it's committed couples who can't conceive because of male or female infertility factors.
Sometimes couples have one or more children but they experience secondary infertility.
Maybe they can get pregnant naturally, but have recurrent tubal pregnancies.

Yes, women who don't have healthy eggs can also use egg donors to conceive.
Sometimes surrogates carry these babies for a woman / couple.
There are countless points of view to consider.


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ironpony
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06 Jul 2022, 1:20 am

IsabellaLinton wrote:
Sometimes, sure.
Sometimes it's single women who don't have a male partner and / or don't want one.
Sometimes it's single (or married) lesbian women who use sperm donors.
Sometimes it's a woman using her ill / deceased partner's frozen sperm, or her own frozen eggs.
Sometimes it's committed couples who can't conceive because of male or female infertility factors.
Sometimes couples have one or more children but they experience secondary infertility.
Maybe they can get pregnant naturally, but have recurrent tubal pregnancies.

Yes, women who don't have healthy eggs can also use egg donors to conceive.
Sometimes surrogates carry these babies for a woman / couple.
There are countless points of view to consider.


Oh I see. And any left over egg could legally be a problem whether fertlized or unfertilized when it comes to IVF?



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06 Jul 2022, 1:23 am

A real-life example:

My wife’s son has a surrogate son because his partner is a man. Another woman had the baby for him.



kraftiekortie
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06 Jul 2022, 1:33 am

The first IVF baby was in 1978.



IsabellaLinton
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06 Jul 2022, 8:47 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
A real-life example:

My wife’s son has a surrogate son because his partner is a man. Another woman had the baby for him.


My exh and his husband have children from a surrogate as well.


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IsabellaLinton
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06 Jul 2022, 9:32 am

ironpony wrote:




Oh I see. And any left over egg could legally be a problem whether fertlized or unfertilized when it comes to IVF?


Unfertilised wouldn't matter.
Baby girls are born with all the eggs they'll ever have in their lifetime.
They can freeze some if they are ill or need chemotherapy etc.
Ovulating or harvesting eggs isn't a problem, if they aren't fertilised.


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ironpony
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06 Jul 2022, 10:21 am

oh okay, that makes sense. However I don't think the court is going to prosecute a clinic for accidentally fertilizing too many eggs, are they?



IsabellaLinton
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06 Jul 2022, 10:25 am

ironpony wrote:
oh okay, that makes sense. However I don't think the court is going to prosecute a clinic for accidentally fertilizing too many eggs, are they?


Not for fertilising them.
Creating life is OK.
The problem would be destroying them if they aren't used.
I'm not sure if the clinic or the parent would be liable for that.
It would only be done by consent between the parties.
If the clinics will be liable, I assume they'll refuse to destroy them.
I guess parents will just pay indefinitely to keep them frozen.

Maybe in 1000 years we can implant a whole society of frozen embryos.
We can have future babies built in the past.


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