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Capital Punishment
Yes - 25 cent solution 13%  13%  [ 8 ]
Yes - 25 cent solution 13%  13%  [ 8 ]
Maybe- if and ONLY if (fof) the criminal cannot live in society 6%  6%  [ 4 ]
Maybe- if and ONLY if (fof) the criminal cannot live in society 6%  6%  [ 4 ]
NO- thou shalt not kill/ prison is worse of a punishment 31%  31%  [ 20 ]
NO- thou shalt not kill/ prison is worse of a punishment 31%  31%  [ 20 ]
Total votes : 64

kevv729
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22 Jan 2006, 2:35 pm

What is ever absolute in anything in the end.


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Mithrandir
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22 Jan 2006, 4:07 pm

kevv729 wrote:
What is ever absolute in anything in the end.


your name is absolute, there is no denying that.

I don't care if any of this "real" world isn't real. If you call yourself Kev
(I don't like to give out personal info)
then guess what well call you tomorrow? Kev
Its something that you want us to narrow you down out of the millions of other people.
If I want to be called Mr. Wizard then I will say my name is Mr. Wizard.
Its truth because you want it to be.
That is the real truth.


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kevv729
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22 Jan 2006, 4:14 pm

Mithrandir wrote:
kevv729 wrote:
What is ever absolute in anything in the end.


your name is absolute, there is no denying that.

I don't care if any of this "real" world isn't real. If you call yourself Kev
(I don't like to give out personal info)
then guess what well call you tomorrow? Kev
Its something that you want us to narrow you down out of the millions of other people.
If I want to be called Mr. Wizard then I will say my name is Mr. Wizard.
Its truth because you want it to be.
That is the real truth.
That is one way of seeing what is absolute.


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kevv729
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22 Jan 2006, 4:21 pm

Here is a question what is absolute "truth" is truth that absolute in the end.

Can "truth" be that absolute in the end.

How is "truth" that absolute in the end.

Why is "truth" that absolute in the end.

Can We (Humans) ever know or understand anything so ABSOLUTE like the TRUTH.


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Mithrandir
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22 Jan 2006, 4:25 pm

kevv729 wrote:
Here is a question what is absolute "truth" is truth that absolute in the end.

Can "truth" be that absolute in the end.

How is "truth" that absolute in the end.

Why is "truth" that absolute in the end.

Can We (Humans) ever know or understand anything so ABSOLUTE like the TRUTH.


Thats the problem with languages, nothing is truly cut and dry.
"Truth is like liquid, the moment you find it is the moment it drains from your hands."


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Awesomelyglorious
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22 Jan 2006, 5:41 pm

Truth is an ideal thing, that is why it is absolute. Truth may not truly exist but this does not change the nature of the ideal.

My answer to all questions is that truth is an absolute by its nature. It must be absolute because it must be true has the synonyms of precise, factual, accurate and correct. Truth may not actually exist but if it does exist it MUST be absolute by its definition. I make no promises about how truth can be known or reached or anything of that nature. Truth could be many things really, it could be God, the theory of everything, it could be that truth does not exist(but that would be prone to the liar's paradox). My claim on truth is based on how it is defined by the dictionary, not on how some people would choose to define it. I am advocating strict constructionism in other words. :wink:



kevv729
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23 Jan 2006, 10:10 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
Truth is an ideal thing, that is why it is absolute. Truth may not truly exist but this does not change the nature of the ideal.

My answer to all questions is that truth is an absolute by its nature. It must be absolute because it must be true has the synonyms of precise, factual, accurate and correct. Truth may not actually exist but if it does exist it MUST be absolute by its definition. I make no promises about how truth can be known or reached or anything of that nature. Truth could be many things really, it could be God, the theory of everything, it could be that truth does not exist(but that would be prone to the liar's paradox). My claim on truth is based on how it is defined by the dictionary, not on how some people would choose to define it. I am advocating strict constructionism in other words. :wink:
Now this does make sense to Me even I can now understand what You are getting at in the end.

Turth being and Ideal Thing, and this is why it has to be Absolute.

I see the Truth as a Ideal Thing, I try to live by this Ideal of Truth in My Life in the end. So this is how I see the Truth in the end.

Even understand why You see it as an Absolute in the end too. Whatever the Truth maybe in the end it is Absolute. However what makes it Absolute or why it is what it is not Up to Me.


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Awesomelyglorious
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24 Jan 2006, 7:58 pm

Ok, good, now it is understood what i mean by the truth being absolute. I know that the truth is by definition absolute therefore for something to be the truth it must be absolute. If it cannot be absolute then it cannot be true, so the lack of absolutes is why we must go through much of our life based off of guesses due to our bias.



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28 Jan 2006, 4:38 am

were getting no-where here.

Lets talk about non-truths and Injustice.
By talking about truth's "negative" we can figure out what true is.
"There are three types of lies: lies, damn lies and statistics"


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kevv729
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03 Feb 2006, 3:05 am

So what is Justice and what is Injustice? What makes justice unjust? Is there anything call Real Justice then. How do We find Real Justice then? So what makes Justice Justice in the end.

OR ARE WE JUST LIEING TO OURSELVES.


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Mithrandir
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03 Feb 2006, 3:24 am

kevv729 wrote:
So what is Justice and what is Injustice? What makes justice unjust? Is there anything call Real Justice then. How do We find Real Justice then? So what makes Justice Justice in the end.

OR ARE WE JUST LIEING TO OURSELVES.


Take Jesus example.
Jesus was killed because some rich people thought he would end their supply of income and forced pilate to make an example.

Martin Luther King- He did what he did out of his support for love. He said that instead of being vengefull to achieve their goals people can demand respect.

What does justice mean to you specifically?

to me it means: The Prevention of Harm.


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Awesomelyglorious
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03 Feb 2006, 8:09 am

Justice is just a word and it is simply another form of working to society's benefit. Like Mithrandir said to some extent it is preventing harm. Simply society acts in its own benefit and if you do not benefit society then you get "justice". Sort of a cynical way to look at it but you know if you were harming society in some way not covered by law you would still be stopped in some way or another.



Mithrandir
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03 Feb 2006, 12:15 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
Justice is just a word and it is simply another form of working to society's benefit. Like Mithrandir said to some extent it is preventing harm. Simply society acts in its own benefit and if you do not benefit society then you get "justice". Sort of a cynical way to look at it but you know if you were harming society in some way not covered by law you would still be stopped in some way or another.


Ah so your supporting individual law over group law.

In ethical hedonism- the greatest good for the greatest number.

This is becoming a question of egalitarianism.
What society do we want?

Another two pages of this and then lets all discuss one of the important issues.


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Awesomelyglorious
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03 Feb 2006, 5:36 pm

Well, I see it as that society is only responsible for doing the most good for the most people. Society provides justice and the rules that define what justice is. Without society to dictate what is just and what is not then there would be no justice. Because society is made to promote the welfare of the majority then justice would be a tool to do that. Therefore justice exists to do the most good for the most people.

Society exists to do the same, people care more about their own individual welfare than that of others. If they are being hurt or are benefitting less than others are within a society then they will use their power to fight that and considering that people are power to some extent then a majority of people is likely to be a majority of the power so therefore the many will take away the benefits of the few in the name of best interest. It is the responsibility of the government to look at long term best interest because a majority of the people could view it as their best interest to kill the minority and take their possessions but in the long run that may be bad because the significant loss of population may hurt the economy and hurt international relations. But yes, ethical hedonism is sort of the view, I guess it would be consequentialism because I disagree with pleasure being the highest thing... maybe power or something but ethical hedonism/utilitarianism both refer to pleasure being of the most importance.



kevv729
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04 Feb 2006, 1:39 am

Is there Justice in a imperfect world that we live in. Man Justice is it Just.

Justice to Me, is the maintenance or administration of what is right in a fair and impartial way and according to a standard. Everybody deserves impartial Justice if being charged. The problem is is there truly impartiality in this world. It takes a lot to be impartial. The World only reacts after a crime has happened then comes Justice for Justice is in this World. For We must remember Jesus was tried Unjustly and Judged to be Condemned to Death. This shows Me that Justice in this World can be Corrupted.

Though We must remember We must be Just in a World that can be Unjust in the end. For We are responsible on this World for Justice to be Served. For Justice needs to be Blind and Impartial. Society needs to be Blind and Impartial when Justice is needed too.


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medianmistermustard
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04 Feb 2006, 1:08 pm

While I think capital punishment and life imprisonment have the same potential to destroy a life, capital punishment cannot be revoked in light of exonerating evidence. Our criminal justice system lets a lot of murderers go free and locks up a lot of innocent people, but the nature of common law is that we presume the accused are innocent and prove guilt. Furthermore, capital punishment is applied in such a discretionary manner that it cannot be fair. A jury wieghs evidence to determine guilt, but weighs its own feelings in recommneding the death penalty. This runs counter to the rule of law. If incarceration can provide an equal deterrent, it should be preferred as there are less moral implications if a conviction or sentence is made in error.

Truth is the knowledge we obtain about the nature of the universe through binary (true/false) questions. Many of these questions have gone unanswered and infinitely more (well, at least a countable infinity, so it could be worse) haven't been asked yet. Knowing what we don't know is just as important as what we do know.



Last edited by medianmistermustard on 04 Feb 2006, 3:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.