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cognito
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16 Jun 2009, 4:06 pm

okay, since I am the only one here who clearly knows of which I speak, let me explain, we, as anonymous, take no issue with Free zone, which is the belief system of scientology outisde of the church. What we take issue with is the abuses of the church. The whole thing started when COS sent takedown notices to youtube when the tom cruise vid was posted, and we, anonymous, had it with them. They commonly send take down notices to anyone who says anything critical of them, not caring if they don't actaully hold a copyright to it. Google operation clambake and operation snow white and you will see what I mean.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2K0E8sMDJ9M[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovf1TBiQDxg&feature=channel_page[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuHF_br-DBs[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQtKhjSnpsU&feature=related[/youtube]


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Michjo
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16 Jun 2009, 4:26 pm

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Michjo, Judeo-Christian religions are not the only organized religions, nor are you presenting evidence from even close to a majority of them.

Any religion with a hierarchal structure to me is concerned with money and/or power in my veiw. Donating money to orphans for example, is monetry and an act of power. Benevolent power? Yes, but it's still power.

Not all religions have hierarchal structures however and it would be wrong to assume they are concerned with power and/or money. As i have been trying to state, the devil is not in the detail however. My main point was, established religions have faced the exact same critisism as people are now throwing at scientology. I don't see how such critisism can be used to claim scientology is not a religion.

Quote:
Personally, I don't believe in Scientology, but I've never let my belief or disbelief in any particular religion or philosophical belief interfere with my defense of it. Is your argument based on the fact that you don't believe that any religion can be proven or disproved?

I can convince myself that a religion is false, but i can't ever truly know. So yes, it's based off the fact i can never proove or disproove the existence of god to myself or others. I think attacking the whole of scientology is wrong.



cognito
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16 Jun 2009, 4:28 pm

Michjo wrote:
Quote:
Michjo, Judeo-Christian religions are not the only organized religions, nor are you presenting evidence from even close to a majority of them.

Any religion with a hierarchal structure to me is concerned with money and/or power in my veiw. Donating money to orphans for example, is monetry and an act of power. Benevolent power? Yes, but it's still power.

Not all religions have hierarchal structures however and it would be wrong to assume they are concerned with power and/or money. As i have been trying to state, the devil is not in the detail however. My main point was, established religions have faced the exact same critisism as people are now throwing at scientology. I don't see how such critisism can be used to claim scientology is not a religion.

Quote:
Personally, I don't believe in Scientology, but I've never let my belief or disbelief in any particular religion or philosophical belief interfere with my defense of it. Is your argument based on the fact that you don't believe that any religion can be proven or disproved?

I can convince myself that a religion is false, but i can't ever truly know. So yes, it's based off the fact i can never proove or disproove the existence of god to myself or others. I think attacking the whole of scientology is wrong.

we care not for its beliefs, we find them silly like all religions, however, their abuses of people and attempts to censor the web are the reasoning behind our actions. We care not if they bilk money from people or believe in aliens, however, they tried to mess with our internets and we said no u! and hence why we protest.


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16 Jun 2009, 4:36 pm

Michjo wrote:
Quote:
Michjo, Judeo-Christian religions are not the only organized religions, nor are you presenting evidence from even close to a majority of them.

Any religion with a hierarchal structure to me is concerned with money and/or power in my veiw. Donating money to orphans for example, is monetry and an act of power. Benevolent power? Yes, but it's still power.

Not all religions have hierarchal structures however and it would be wrong to assume they are concerned with power and/or money. As i have been trying to state, the devil is not in the detail however. My main point was, established religions have faced the exact same critisism as people are now throwing at scientology. I don't see how such critisism can be used to claim scientology is not a religion.


Okay, this is the last time I will say this: Do not make assumptions about religions you know nothing about. It's that simple. There are many religions with a hierarchal structure that you likely have never even heard of. You are not psychic. You cannot presume to know things by pulling knowledge out of the air. Learn about a religion before you being making assumptions about it.


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cognito
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16 Jun 2009, 4:53 pm

MrLoony wrote:
Michjo wrote:
Quote:
Michjo, Judeo-Christian religions are not the only organized religions, nor are you presenting evidence from even close to a majority of them.

Any religion with a hierarchal structure to me is concerned with money and/or power in my veiw. Donating money to orphans for example, is monetry and an act of power. Benevolent power? Yes, but it's still power.

Not all religions have hierarchal structures however and it would be wrong to assume they are concerned with power and/or money. As i have been trying to state, the devil is not in the detail however. My main point was, established religions have faced the exact same critisism as people are now throwing at scientology. I don't see how such critisism can be used to claim scientology is not a religion.


Okay, this is the last time I will say this: Do not make assumptions about religions you know nothing about. It's that simple. There are many religions with a hierarchal structure that you likely have never even heard of. You are not psychic. You cannot presume to know things by pulling knowledge out of the air. Learn about a religion before you being making assumptions about it.

oh, so the amish and buddhists want power and money? So the Dali llama wants power and money despite the teachings that state one is to give up one's worldy possesions and to take on the qualities of water, which are submission and finding one's own level? Quit talking out of you ass dude


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MrLoony
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16 Jun 2009, 5:11 pm

...Are you talking to me? That is actually the stand I am taking.


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cognito
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16 Jun 2009, 5:17 pm

MrLoony wrote:
...Are you talking to me? That is actually the stand I am taking.

nope to Mihjo


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MrLoony
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16 Jun 2009, 5:34 pm

cognito wrote:
MrLoony wrote:
...Are you talking to me? That is actually the stand I am taking.

nope to Mihjo


OK. I was confused by you quoting me.


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Michjo
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16 Jun 2009, 5:36 pm

Quote:
oh, so the amish and buddhists want power and money? So the Dali llama wants power and money despite the teachings that state one is to give up one's worldy possesions and to take on the qualities of water, which are submission and finding one's own level? Quit talking out of you ass dude

The amish want power over people's choices yes. They let their children experience the world before deciding to be amish, but they set their children up to fail. They also completely isolate from anyone who chooses not to be amish. Their scope for power is smaller than most religions, and their reason for wanting control over their children is a noble one when you consider their beliefs (their children will goto hell if they embrace the world). It's still an exercise of power though.

The dalai lama has been using his influence to try and bring partial autonomy to tibet and back in the day he wanted full independance. It's an exercise of power.

Quote:
It's that simple. There are many religions with a hierarchal structure that you likely have never even heard of.

Give examples of churches with hierarchical structures that do not exercise some sort of power over people's lives. *Most* religions by default have an agenda, and i'd say all with a hierarchical structure do so. Although as i said, you give some examples.

Quote:
Learn about a religion before you being making assumptions about it.

You are still hung up on the details, the statements i said were to paint a picture. It's the picture that is being looked at, not the details. Why can't you understand this?



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16 Jun 2009, 7:42 pm

Michjo wrote:
Quote:
oh, so the amish and buddhists want power and money? So the Dali llama wants power and money despite the teachings that state one is to give up one's worldy possesions and to take on the qualities of water, which are submission and finding one's own level? Quit talking out of you ass dude

The amish want power over people's choices yes. They let their children experience the world before deciding to be amish, but they set their children up to fail. They also completely isolate from anyone who chooses not to be amish. Their scope for power is smaller than most religions, and their reason for wanting control over their children is a noble one when you consider their beliefs (their children will goto hell if they embrace the world). It's still an exercise of power though.

The dalai lama has been using his influence to try and bring partial autonomy to tibet and back in the day he wanted full independance. It's an exercise of power.

Quote:
It's that simple. There are many religions with a hierarchal structure that you likely have never even heard of.

Give examples of churches with hierarchical structures that do not exercise some sort of power over people's lives. *Most* religions by default have an agenda, and i'd say all with a hierarchical structure do so. Although as i said, you give some examples.

Quote:
Learn about a religion before you being making assumptions about it.

You are still hung up on the details, the statements i said were to paint a picture. It's the picture that is being looked at, not the details. Why can't you understand this?

wow, you are totally talking out of your ass! The Dali llama actaully has been calling for peace and negationation, and it makes sense to try and get your home back from an oppressive regime. Its not power, its a mission of peace. The Amish don't hate the world, they see technology not as evil but as something that people will fight over. Take a car, the is usally a communal car, why? That way, they have a car that is needed for stuff like emergencies but their is no one gossiping or fighting over whose is better. And as for learning details, that is sheer stupidity. using that logic, I can say all pro lifers are dumb redneck bigots who are against abortion because it gives women power. Its the details that matter and hence why no one is taking your point as both valid and respectable.


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Michjo
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16 Jun 2009, 8:00 pm

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wow, you are totally talking out of your ass! The Dali llama actaully has been calling for peace and negationation, and it makes sense to try and get your home back from an oppressive regime. Its not power, its a mission of peace. The Amish don't hate the world, they see technology not as evil but as something that people will fight over. Take a car, the is usally a communal car, why? That way, they have a car that is needed for stuff like emergencies but their is no one gossiping or fighting over whose is better. And as for learning details, that is sheer stupidity. using that logic, I can say all pro lifers are dumb redneck bigots who are against abortion because it gives women power. Its the details that matter and hence why no one is taking your point as both valid and respectable.

I never critisised the dalai lama or the amish. Infact i respect the amish way of life, and i respect the dalai lama.

And as for the part on details, you completely missed the point. I guess it's pointless trying to explain to someone with aspergers anyway.



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16 Jun 2009, 8:11 pm

Michjo wrote:
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wow, you are totally talking out of your ass! The Dali llama actaully has been calling for peace and negationation, and it makes sense to try and get your home back from an oppressive regime. Its not power, its a mission of peace. The Amish don't hate the world, they see technology not as evil but as something that people will fight over. Take a car, the is usally a communal car, why? That way, they have a car that is needed for stuff like emergencies but their is no one gossiping or fighting over whose is better. And as for learning details, that is sheer stupidity. using that logic, I can say all pro lifers are dumb redneck bigots who are against abortion because it gives women power. Its the details that matter and hence why no one is taking your point as both valid and respectable.

I never critisised the dalai lama or the amish. Infact i respect the amish way of life, and i respect the dalai lama.

And as for the part on details, you completely missed the point. I guess it's pointless trying to explain to someone with aspergers anyway.

and I guess its pointless to try to explain logic to you. You talk out of your ass, I don't, the fact that I have aspergers has nothing to do with it, now your intellect on the other hand might explain the problem


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16 Jun 2009, 8:20 pm

Michjo wrote:
I guess it's pointless trying to explain to someone with aspergers anyway.

I don't know how you mean to say that, but it sounds really rude. Not to mention not in the least true.


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16 Jun 2009, 8:33 pm

My my my, this thread certainly does seem to be bringing out the egotistical side of people.



Michjo
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16 Jun 2009, 8:46 pm

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and I guess its pointless to try to explain logic to you. You talk out of your ass, I don't, the fact that I have aspergers has nothing to do with it, now your intellect on the other hand might explain the problem

I have no idea why you've decided to start insulting me. I merely stated you are misunderstood what i said when i was talking about details. Everything i have said, the generalisations made in this thread, were all pointing towards a general idea i was trying to make... Instead, everyone has got themselves hooked on the details but completely missed the idea i was conveying.

Wether the details or the idea's i have inadvertently shared (in the process of conveying my idea) are correct or incorrect isn't really relevant. Although i'm certainly glad to discuss them.

Quote:
I don't know how you mean to say that, but it sounds really rude. Not to mention not in the least true.

Everything i have shared in this topic (apart from where i've lost track of my thoughts), was said in an effort to convey one idea. The big picture if you may, which people with aspergers tend to miss. No offense was meant.

Quote:
we care not for its beliefs, we find them silly like all religions, however, their abuses of people and attempts to censor the web are the reasoning behind our actions. We care not if they bilk money from people or believe in aliens, however, they tried to mess with our internets and we said no u! and hence why we protest.

Yet they don't seem to be doing a lot about china, i think that maybe they only attack people where they wont get their hands burnt.



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16 Jun 2009, 9:01 pm

Michjo wrote:
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and I guess its pointless to try to explain logic to you. You talk out of your ass, I don't, the fact that I have aspergers has nothing to do with it, now your intellect on the other hand might explain the problem

I have no idea why you've decided to start insulting me. I merely stated you are misunderstood what i said when i was talking about details. Everything i have said, the generalisations made in this thread, were all pointing towards a general idea i was trying to make... Instead, everyone has got themselves hooked on the details but completely missed the idea i was conveying.

Wether the details or the idea's i have inadvertently shared (in the process of conveying my idea) are correct or incorrect isn't really relevant. Although i'm certainly glad to discuss them.

Quote:
I don't know how you mean to say that, but it sounds really rude. Not to mention not in the least true.

Everything i have shared in this topic (apart from where i've lost track of my thoughts), was said in an effort to convey one idea. The big picture if you may, which people with aspergers tend to miss. No offense was meant.

Quote:
we care not for its beliefs, we find them silly like all religions, however, their abuses of people and attempts to censor the web are the reasoning behind our actions. We care not if they bilk money from people or believe in aliens, however, they tried to mess with our internets and we said no u! and hence why we protest.

Yet they don't seem to be doing a lot about china, i think that maybe they only attack people where they wont get their hands burnt.

Anonymous does things for 2 reasons, lulz or malice. China will yield neither and while they could cause some effect, the effort would be truly pointless. With COS, it was a direct thing, taking youtube, something that anon sees as partially owned by them via the tubes, being abused by COS and trying to remove anything bad about them. This pissed us off greatly. We are not white knights or moralf-gs, we are anonymous, we are legion, expect us! Ever seen a Anonymous protest? Its done in good humor and very lulzly! You think the interwebz is srs buisness, hence why we do lulz things, take the times poll, we made it spell out the game, which you just lost, see, lulz!


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