Florida Christians protest atheist billboard

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iamnotaparakeet
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14 Aug 2009, 12:48 am

Sand wrote:

I have no quarrel with confronting a murdering force and opposing and destroying it but to purposely and with clear intent vengefully kill helpless people indiscriminately is clearly a war crime under international agreement. The term "collateral damage" is the militarists verbal excuse for insane murder. If a bank robber killed a batch of civilians and stole money he is not merely convicted for the money stolen but held fully responsible for the murder involved. Unnecessary killing is a basic crime. Hiroshima was not a military target. Dresden was not a military target. And in our current wars the wild murder of wedding parties and funeral processions is not in pursuit of actual terrorists but the claim that there were terrorists after the fact is in the same order of the frequently corrupt practice of the police shoving a gun into the pocket of an innocent bystander who had been shot down in mistake. Very clearly the stumblebums who shoot innocents only arouse huge hatreds in a local population that knows better and only generate more resistance than it supposedly conquers. It is a huge military tactical error.

Neither Hiroshima nor Nagasaki were major population center, but small towns. The goal was not for genocide, but to end a war. It stinks to have lost lives of civilians though, and I don't think it needed to. What could have been done is for an unpopulated area within visual range of Tokyo to have been hit. That would have equally shown to the Sun King a weapon which is "Brighter than the Sun".

As for the middle east, nothing is going to stop the irrational hatred of the Jews [or of America either for that matter] amongst either Muslims or idiotic European types. Even if you bomb them with antimatter photon torpedoes or whatever the heck else, they will never get the point. Why bother? Israel is powerful enough to take care of herself anyway.

As for Atheist buses and billboards, they'll do nothing. Just like Christian billboards do nothing. Really the public school system is the most effective method of indoctrination into this belief system, whether you like it being called a belief system or not.

ruveyn
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14 Aug 2009, 1:44 am

Ancalagon wrote:

If you want examples of unjust American cruelty, why not talk about Native Americans, or slavery?

Bingo! Substitute for aboriginal, Canaanite and you have reproduced early biblical history.

Fortunately for the world and the Jews themselves, about fifteen hundred years of getting the sh*t kicked out at the hands of unkind strangers has transformed the original Hebrew religion (which is no better than Islam) into something a great deal less toxic. The result is a religion that produces scholars and intellectuals rather than fanatics that strap on explosive devices. The treatment was harsh, but the results much better.

Christianity has undergone a different process. Science has pretty well destroyed the intellectual foundations of Christianity and has rendered the religion less toxic in its practice although just as insane in its content. I mean really! Virgins having children? Come on! Even the Catholic Church has `come around to accepting the theory of evolution although Catholics still accept the notion that a virgin can give birth and that a circular piece of bread can turn into flesh and blood.

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grain-and-field
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14 Aug 2009, 3:01 am

Henriksson wrote:

Well, Europe's not exactly a paradise either, but it's the best place there is right now.

You seem to forget something, what about Canada? Its a nice country.

And......it´s nonsense to compare Florida to states like NY or WA.

Last edited by grain-and-field on 14 Aug 2009, 3:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

iamnotaparakeet
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14 Aug 2009, 3:06 am

grain-and-field wrote:

Henriksson wrote:

Well, Europe's not exactly a paradise either, but it's the best place there is right now.

You seem to forget something, what about Canada? Its a nice country.

Yes, Canada is a nice country. Also, it sounds so funny when Canadians say "What the hell?!" Such as FluffeeTalks or Tanya Allen playing Percy Montana in Starhunter.

ShenLong
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14 Aug 2009, 5:03 am

Wow leave it to my state of florida where everyone is super republican and christian and think democrats are going to go to hell( I've actually heard people say that)

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15 Aug 2009, 3:19 am

Orwell wrote:

I often hear about atheists being discriminated against, which I find curious. On my college campus at least, atheists and agnostics don't seem to face any particular discrimination. I would guess that right-wing Christians face more opposition than atheists, but that may just be the nature of a predominantly liberal university. From what I've observed, a rather large number of people seem, for all intents and purposes, non-religious even if they maintain nominal ties to a religion.

Think of having to say "One Nation under Allaha with Muhhumad as his prophet" before pronouncing the stark non-discrimination atheists witness in America. Travel the Lower Midwest. Or perhaps even read rudimentary studies.

Quote:

University of Minnesota study of 2006: (Would you want your daughter to marry an Atheist?)

University of Minnesota researchers conducted a telephone survey of over 2,000 households in early 2006. 7 They found that:

"...Americans rate atheists below Muslims, recent immigrants, gays and lesbians and other minority groups in 'sharing their vision of American society.' Atheists are also the minority group most Americans are least willing to allow their children to marry."

http://civil-liberties.tribe.net/thread ... 6a922bcd6c

Or try and conceive of a politician talking about the need for people of "nonbelief" to run the country, day in and out, and on the campaign trail (no, some Internet forum member talking about the use of having one more atheist in some elected office doesn't count).

And if you want to get pedantic about "good" and whether or not "freethinker" should be attributed to nontheists (an entymological practice dating a century) perhaps you can also nitpick signs describing "faith" ambigiously or not explicitly stating whether their views of goodness evade the Euthyphro dilemma that I'm sure Christian tracts and even publications from mainline churches obviously put out, owing to the fact they're engaging in public relations and not publishing papers in a philosophy journal.

Master_Pedant
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15 Aug 2009, 3:29 am

ruveyn wrote:

Sand wrote:

Thanks for being explicit. It's bleakly ironic that a Jew should find his ideals in the morality of Fascist Germany.

Not at all. Read what the tanach (hebrew bible) specifies for Cananites and the other nations to be overrun and driven out.

Also from the Babylonian Talmud (Sanhedrin 72A): If he is coming to murder you, rise up early and slay him first.

The early Hebrews were as fierce and nasty as Islamic fanatics are today. Fifteen hundred years being kicked about in the Exile has produced a different attitude among Jews, but there is nothing peace loving about Judaism. Read the book. Jews are now willing to live at peace with those who are peaceful toward them.

It comes down to basics:

Treat your friends well, kill your enemies and be honest in business.

Turning the Other Cheek is strictly for the Goyim.

And not just Jews either:

Americans are generally slow to fight, but once at war they are a nasty lot. Look at what we did to Japan. We also did a number on Germany as well. The Allies killed over one million "civilians" in air raids. That means women and children along with males. Look at what W.T.Sherman did to Georgia during the Civil War and what Phil Sheridan did to the Shenandoa Valley. Americans are like the Incredible Hulk. You wouldn't like us when we are angry.

ruveyn

Thank goodness America has militariasts like you, willing, no, eager, to start WWIII. The fact the Romans were somewhat successful at salting the earth and killing people doesn't justify their actions.

Likewise, America's current success does not equate right. There was a moral component to US involvement in WWII (namely, the defeat of the Fascists) alongside an injust component (namely, the destruction of the anti-Fascist resistance forces and ideals following a stagnant conversion into America's economic backyard for a little bit).

Sadly for you, I think America's already to overextended to nuke the Muslim world and "straighten up" billions of Muslims. Hitchens and you can have dreams, though...

In the intermission, I will just note how ironic it is that the OP's accused of anti-Americanism for politely noting that he dislikes certain aspects of American culture enough to avoid living in the nation while ruveyn get's away with blank overgeneralizations concerning the French people and calling for genocide against Muslims.

ruveyn
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15 Aug 2009, 4:00 am

Master_Pedant wrote:

WW2 (actually WW1 continued) was started by the Germans and the Japanese. The Italians went along for the ride (to their ruination). We did not start WW2. We finished WW2.

Every year, I remember and rejoice the nuking of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

What can I say? We do it right in the Fatherland.

ruveyn

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15 Aug 2009, 4:25 am

ruveyn wrote:

Every year, I remember and rejoice the nuking of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

What can I say? We do it right in the Fatherland.

ruveyn

If you choose to celebrate death, that is your right - it is the only guarantee we have in life. Personally, I find your perspective just sad... would rather find what joy may lie in living than live out a past that should be learned from and not emulated or exalted.

M.

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15 Aug 2009, 5:11 am

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

grain-and-field wrote:

Henriksson wrote:

Well, Europe's not exactly a paradise either, but it's the best place there is right now.

You seem to forget something, what about Canada? Its a nice country.

Yes, Canada is a nice country. Also, it sounds so funny when Canadians say "What the hell?!" Such as FluffeeTalks or Tanya Allen playing Percy Montana in Starhunter.

What the hell?

One thing that makes me laugh is to hear (some) Americans say 'roof'. I was watching a television program and this interviewed American General said "We were up on the ruff". I did a double take and laughed. It wasnt a matter of regionalism or education. He clearly enunciated 'we were up on the rough'.

Its good to laugh at our trivial differences.

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Ancalagon
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15 Aug 2009, 6:50 am

ruveyn wrote:

I mean really! Virgins having children? Come on!

I've always wondered why people make this argument. The really weird thing is that it's always this particular miracle being objected to. Why? How is creating the universe from nothing believable, but virgin birth isn't?

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Ancalagon
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15 Aug 2009, 6:57 am

Quote:

Every year, I remember and rejoice the nuking of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

I actually think those two bombs saved lives overall, and that their use was neccesary ... but that is just wrong.

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MissConstrue
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15 Aug 2009, 7:11 am

I'm pretty shocked by this ruveyn.

I knew you were ruthelessly cynical but I had no idea you were a mad hatter....

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ruveyn
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15 Aug 2009, 8:23 am

Sand wrote:

Dresden was not a military target.

Dresden had railroad marshalling yards for troop trains and there were anit-aircraft canon batteries in Dresden. It was a kosher target by the then current rules of war. The city of government of Dresden never declared Dresden an open (i.e. undefended) city. Indeed they would not dare. The nazi government would haVe had them hung for cowardice and treason.

Dresden was a legal target and a good one. It burned beautifully. It was Sir Arthur Harris' masterpiece. Almost as good as the low level incendiary raids Gen. Curtis Lemay sent against the Japanese cities.

It would behoove you to learn some historical facts instead of letting your political prejudices lead you astray.

ruveyn

Sand
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15 Aug 2009, 12:10 pm

ruveyn wrote:

Sand wrote:

Dresden was not a military target.

And did they concentrate on the military target of the railroad as the international war requirements dictated? Have you read Vonnegut's "Slaughterhouse Five"? Or is he one of your stinko pinko liberals?

ruveyn
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15 Aug 2009, 2:07 pm

Sand wrote:

The Brits showed as much concern for Dresden as did the Germans did for London. That is war. W.T. Sherman said war is all hell. It is.

Bomber Harris' raid was no more criminal than any other area bombing.

ruveyn

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