School board approves measure allowing teachers to challenge

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skafather84
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18 Sep 2009, 9:41 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

skafather84 wrote:

Who's going to value life less? The person with no afterlife or the person who is promised the best things imaginable if they do as they're told?

It's the valuing of this passing life that allows argumentum ad baculum to be most effective.

So you're saying that the devaluing of life is important to allow one's will to be enforced through the force imparted by others who are believers?

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18 Sep 2009, 10:00 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Realistic motives: (1) indoctrination through the education system of the teachers (unintentional in the west, but intentional in the former Soviet Union, China, and North Korea as it logically leads to Atheism and a population of Atheists is easier to control by threats of bodily harm or loss in this life than those who believe there is more than this life.) (2) Peer pressure, a good force to keep people accepting the modern day dogmas and norms.

Those motives are a huge stretch, as a large number of Christians (myself included) accept the scientific fact of evolution. And creationism is still basically a fringe conspiracy theory, replete with tinfoil hatters of its own. For the most part, I put YECs in the same category as Holocaust deniers, 9/11 truthers, and the moon landing people.

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iamnotaparakeet
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18 Sep 2009, 11:25 pm

skafather84 wrote:

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

skafather84 wrote:

Who's going to value life less? The person with no afterlife or the person who is promised the best things imaginable if they do as they're told?

It's the valuing of this passing life that allows argumentum ad baculum to be most effective.

So you're saying that the devaluing of life is important to allow one's will to be enforced through the force imparted by others who are believers?

I'm not sure that that sentence makes sense. Edit: it could, but I'm not getting it right now. Done with finals though, yay.

Last edited by iamnotaparakeet on 18 Sep 2009, 11:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

iamnotaparakeet
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18 Sep 2009, 11:32 pm

Orwell wrote:

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

So, no sensible people would be young earth creationists? Not even people like Jonathan Sarfati? or Russell Humphreys?

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18 Sep 2009, 11:54 pm

I think I'm going to build a few Akkan Battlecruisers and Kol Class Battleships and conquer a few solar systems. See you all later.

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19 Sep 2009, 1:12 am

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Orwell wrote:

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

So, no sensible people would be young earth creationists? Not even people like Jonathan Sarfati? or Russell Humphreys?

There are quite a few very intelligent YECs. One of my best friends, a very bright guy, is a YEC. But young earth creationism is a stupid belief. All you are giving me are examples of intelligent people who for some reason buy into ridiculous beliefs. There are plenty of brilliant 9/11 truthers and other conspiracy theorists out there. But that doesn't change the fact that their beliefs are a load of crap.

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skafather84
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19 Sep 2009, 12:02 pm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cCC8a6HMz4&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]

Creationism? Put to a test!

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22 Sep 2009, 4:49 am

Good. By the way, Charles Darwin was an idiot. It's obvious he never read the bible, at least not carefully.

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22 Sep 2009, 5:38 am

LiberalJustice wrote:

Good. By the way, Charles Darwin was an idiot. It's obvious he never read the bible, at least not carefully.

He was a minister of a Christian church before he was a naturalist. He read the bible. I read the bible too. In Hebrew and Aramaic. It is a book of Stories, not an accurate description of the physical world.

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22 Sep 2009, 6:09 am

ruveyn wrote:

LiberalJustice wrote:

Good. By the way, Charles Darwin was an idiot. It's obvious he never read the bible, at least not carefully.

ruveyn, the above person's post is most likely a work of sarcasm. Also, Darwin was quite familiar with Paley's tome.

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22 Sep 2009, 9:36 am

ruveyn wrote:

The Creationist view is not limited to a literal interpretation of Genesis. One could believe that some creative entity made the Big Bang happen fourteen billion years ago. One could even believe that the evolutionary process by which life on this planet is the Method of the Designer.

well, that would be labeled as evolutionary creationism or theistic evolution, but as AG said that is not an issue for them but for the ones who promote and believe in "Creation Science" in which conservative christians advocate for and use the label of Creationism for their view on the origin of the universe, so pretty much Creationism is refered to a literal or semi-literal interpretation of the Bible, rather than the Christians who accept evolution, Catholics don't see themselves as creationists.

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22 Sep 2009, 9:51 am

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Sand wrote:

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Public school teachers explaining Creationism is like Soviet economics teachers explaining capitalism.

And that surely would reveal the truth.

Yep, just the same as it would for the views of any side of a debate to be taught by those holding antagonistic sentiments.

well, this the issue, I have seen, pretty much that the Big Bang theory has been thought along with alternative theories of the origin of the universe, but pointing out, the big bang being the most accepted theory and explaining why is the case, from what I have seen.

The problem is not about censoring an alternative theory as your post seems to suggest, but rather, the issue of wether the alternative theory qualifies as a valid scientific theory, and it has been pretty clear why Intelligent Design (Creationism) does not qualify. And I think it's not much of a matter of wether Creationism is true or false, rather, wether it qualifies as Science or not.

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Last edited by greenblue on 22 Sep 2009, 12:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

skafather84
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22 Sep 2009, 10:03 am

greenblue wrote:

But the theistic part of "theistic evolution" is scientifically incorrect. All it is is merely "evolution". Even to imply that there was a god at the big bang that started everything postulates an idea that cannot be tested and cannot be proven therefore cannot be a hypothesis rather less a theory. You're welcome to believe god all you want but you can only have it as faith, it would seem. Well, unless you want to believe in the god particle as a deity...but even then, that means having to convert to a new religion and make up new rules.

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22 Sep 2009, 12:45 pm

John_Browning wrote:

I say let the kids evaluate the theories and let them decide what to believe fit themselves. They might even come to a third conclusion that is a synthesis of the 2 theories and believe that God had a hand in th the natural processes.

Which is exactly what I have always believed and, it turns out, is the official position of the Catholic Church.

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22 Sep 2009, 1:23 pm

DW_a_mom wrote:

John_Browning wrote:

Which is exactly what I have always believed and, it turns out, is the official position of the Catholic Church.

It seems a peculiar reversal of roles that the children should evaluate what the teacher has to offer with little or no background on which to make their decisions.

skafather84
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22 Sep 2009, 1:25 pm

Sand wrote:

DW_a_mom wrote:

John_Browning wrote:

Which is exactly what I have always believed and, it turns out, is the official position of the Catholic Church.

It seems a peculiar reversal of roles that the children should evaluate what the teacher has to offer with little or no background on which to make their decisions.

Uneducation: what every religion strives for.

/the less curious the mind, the more faithful the slave.

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