Do we still want muslims in our western nations?

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I am aware of the importance the military has had in establishing and preserving our republic. I suppose it just annoys me to hear veterans assume an air of superiority and brag that they've been out "defending [my] freedoms." For most veterans today, that is just a false statement (WWII vets of course excluded). It's been quite some time since the US military undertook any action which can seriously be claimed to have the purpose (or effect) of safeguarding civil liberties here at home.


Ah, I see, you were using irony. Yes, I did miss that.

One of the requirements for religious diversity is that followers of no one religion tries to impose their religion on others. If Muslims ever get political power, you can kiss your First Amendment protections good bye. In'shallah. God is Great and you will worship God their way or else.

ruveyn

Uhh, Christians from my experience are pretty pushy with their doctrine. Maybe these days they don't kill you if you don't convert, but it's not like they don't their share of blood on their hands. It's not just Muslims who convert others, is my point. Most of the larger religions do, tis why they are so large in the first place.

I have no issue with a Muslim in office, so long as they obey the laws of the country. And govern in the best (or close approximation) interest of the people.

The whole point of this thread is that they are building up quite a reputation of doing the opposite of that in incredible, spectacular ways.

Coming back to my points before in the thread, muslims shouldn't be trusted because of Islam, not because of their actions. Because they claim to follow islam they are enemies of the majority of the US on religious terms and are allowed by their scripture to be subversive and deceptive.

It's like if there was a religion of childabductionism where the only rule is that you must abduct children and are allowed to lie if it furthers your progress towards abducting children. If someone claims to be a devout follower of this religion, but says they do not abduct children or want to abduct children can you trust them to run a daycare centre single handed?

This is similar to having muslim psychiatrists in the army.

Edit: Oops, I think I'm referring to a different but similar thread... The point and gist remain OK though I think.

I will answer this question seriously.

I live in Australia. It used to be a totally Anglo Saxon country then they started bringing in migrants from Greece and Italy. ... "Wogs"

Oh my gosh we are going to be overrun with wogs.

But within one or two generations the "wogs" became "us". They blended into our society.

Now we are bringing in Muslims. Is this a good thing or a bad thing? I don't know.

Back in the 1950's there was a huge divide between "protestant" and "catholic". It really was a big deal.

Now no one could care less except the people of Northern Ireland.

I have lived next door to a moderate Muslim family and their son was my son's schoolmate and best friend.

In other words I couldn't give a rats if the people next door are Muslim or Chinese or Black or whatever as long it doesn't matter to them either.

But if it matters to THEM it is different.

If they hate us and don't respect us or our country then they have made themselves my enemy.

Aww cmon, I'm entitled to "assume an air of superiority and brag that they've been out "defending [your] freedoms.""
At least today I do, if not every other day. Although I assume an air of superiority because well, I always have, well before ever even joining the service. Guess I'm just a jerk.

But, cmon, of all the days of the year, can't a vet get away with what I said today? It's vet day

W

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You're making some kind of joke that has gone over my head right?

Would have made more sense if I had posted in the right thread >.>

I know you're being facetious, but I'm used to military servicemen taking it as a given that they're better than the rest of us- and also to virtually all civilians going along with that delusion.


Armistice day? You didn't fight in WWI. And those who fought in WWI were not heroes, they were just supremely unfortunate.

Naw, I'm serious. I'm a jerk because I'm a jerk, I'm too forward, presumptuous, indifferent to the reactions of my audience and am egotistical. If anything, military service calmed those qualities.

You've obviously had significant bad experiences interacting with vets in the past, so nothing I say will carry much weight. But, I rarely throw out the vet card, especially when in person. Since I was against the actions I had to take while in the service, I generally just avoid thinking about that block in my life.

But I do want to say, for the sake of saying it, regardless of the outcome, the people who serve in the military really do sacrifice quite a bit. I know it's easy to ignore it if one wants to, but, especially the ones in direct combat zones. It's not like MASH. You put your life completely on hold for years. Years man. You are in constant danger, some don't come home. People die in the military. You understand this, no? I've buried friends and comrades. Some of them teenagers. I've seen people sustain permanent injuries, as in life long disabilities. These people all sacrificed for the military, and not a small sacrifice either.

I've made no claim that my vet status makes me a better person though. (Which is ironic, because being in the military has improved me)

As far as the folks who fought and died for their country not being heroes. Those that sacrificed for our country not being heroes? I'd have to ask you what your definition of hero is then, certainly it's not the same definition as mine.

Certainly, I'm aware (though admittedly from only second-hand sources) that military service is a great hardship.


Someone isn't a hero simply for having fought and died. To be a hero, I think you would need a worthy cause for which to fight. Someone who dies in military service because of a blunder on the part of our leaders is not a hero- they are unfortunate. Someone sacrificing for their country may be a hero, but you have to wonder whether the sacrifices that are being made are actually for our country.

Think of the poem "Charge of the Light Brigade." Some moron officer screwed up the instructions and got a bunch of people killed in an ill-conceived attack. Were the soldiers who died in that attack heroes? No, they were supremely unlucky to have been commanded by an incompetent.

Then there is also the issue of whether the actions are voluntary. One can't be much of a hero for things done against one's will.

I think I have a hard time with words like "fortunate/unfortunate" and "luck" etc. Everything is preordained. Complex and difficult for us to foresee? Sure, but none the less preordained. We are but gears in a machine. Made up of smaller gears. Made up of smaller gears. It's all going to play out how it's spose to. So concepts such as luck seem odd to me.

The guy who commanded them was the guy who commanded them. Despite his abilities(or lack of) they where going to do what they did. And they did. And it wasn't pleasant. But, certainly not unfortunate. They made a sacrifice of themselves for our military. The military's function is to protect our nation. (It has other functions too) So, despite a bunch of factors that introduce a number of other things that could be said about the whole deal, soldiers die to protect their country.

So yea, we can argue all sorts of semantics, but, in the essence of what a member of the military does is to vanguard his nation. Claiming otherwise is disrespectful of the dead. But, if that is your aim, by all means have at it.

no0b!

Do we still want muslims in our western culture??

Bloody hell.

Firstly, who's 'we'? Are you assuming all people here are non-Muslim? That we all live in the West?

Secondly, who gives a s**t what 'we' want. Muslim people have the same human rights as anyone else. That includes living in the West.

Thanks. I haven't laughed that hard in a while. It's been a long week.

just like to add that I joined about 1000-1500 people who turned out in Glasgow to prevent the Scottish Defence League (a spin-off of the English Defence League) from marching on a mosque in the city centre yesterday - the SDL had one group bussed away by the police before they could turn out (two buses worth) and only another 60-70 SDL members managed to get out to protest and were met by something over a thousand demonstrators before also being moved away by police escort. I believe that qualifies as an embarassing rout.