Sand wrote:
I have just seen the film and been impressed with the amount or real effort to depict an alien planet and it's ecology. As a reader of science fiction for about 75 years I have not been very impressed with either Star Wars or Star Trek as science fiction although they were frequently great fun. 2001 was a very worthy effort as was Groundhog Day which most people don't recognize as science fiction. But Avatar made a real effort and did moderately well although the plot was pure cattlemen and Indians. An interesting analysis can be found at http://www.aintitcool.com/node/43440
When you have an astronomical budget and modern digital production technology, depicting a believable alien ecology is much easier than it has ever been. Starwars was never really much about ecologies, and I've never watched too much Trek. I was impressed with Anne McCaffrey's world... really put a lot of thought into it.
CaptainTrips222 wrote:
Sand wrote:
I have just seen the film and been impressed with the amount or real effort to depict an alien planet and it's ecology. As a reader of science fiction for about 75 years I have not been very impressed with either Star Wars or Star Trek as science fiction although they were frequently great fun. 2001 was a very worthy effort as was Groundhog Day which most people don't recognize as science fiction. But Avatar made a real effort and did moderately well although the plot was pure cattlemen and Indians. An interesting analysis can be found at http://www.aintitcool.com/node/43440
When you have an astronomical budget and modern digital production technology, depicting a believable alien ecology is much easier than it has ever been. Starwars was never really much about ecologies, and I've never watched too much Trek. I was impressed with Anne McCaffrey's world... really put a lot of thought into it.
The only alien encounters I have found impressive were individual, not planetary. The John Carpenter "The Thing" and "The Invasion of the Body Snatchers" with Donald Southern was well done. "Alien had some good touches but the monstrous growth of the alien with no or little physical input bothered me. The aliens in Avatar were, frankly too human to strike me as truly alien and most of the fauna a flora, although nicely depicted, were variations of land and undersea Earth things. As others have noticed, the floating mountains were simply beyond reason.
Sand wrote:
CaptainTrips222 wrote:
Sand wrote:
I have just seen the film and been impressed with the amount or real effort to depict an alien planet and it's ecology. As a reader of science fiction for about 75 years I have not been very impressed with either Star Wars or Star Trek as science fiction although they were frequently great fun. 2001 was a very worthy effort as was Groundhog Day which most people don't recognize as science fiction. But Avatar made a real effort and did moderately well although the plot was pure cattlemen and Indians. An interesting analysis can be found at http://www.aintitcool.com/node/43440
When you have an astronomical budget and modern digital production technology, depicting a believable alien ecology is much easier than it has ever been. Starwars was never really much about ecologies, and I've never watched too much Trek. I was impressed with Anne McCaffrey's world... really put a lot of thought into it.
The only alien encounters I have found impressive were individual, not planetary. The John Carpenter "The Thing" and "The Invasion of the Body Snatchers" with Donald Southern was well done. "Alien had some good touches but the monstrous growth of the alien with no or little physical input bothered me. The aliens in Avatar were, frankly too human to strike me as truly alien and most of the fauna a flora, although nicely depicted, were variations of land and undersea Earth things. As others have noticed, the floating mountains were simply beyond reason.
You know what, you're right about the flora and fauna being derived from stuff on Earth. I thought about that too but never brought it up. And the aliens being too "human," I thought about that also, like how they had our basic facial and corporeal features, and must have had similar brains to speak a language we could deduce. I'm sure a lot of people think of things like that. I never complained because I doubt I could do better.

techstepgenr8tion
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CaptainTrips222 wrote:
Sand wrote:
CaptainTrips222 wrote:
Sand wrote:
I have just seen the film and been impressed with the amount or real effort to depict an alien planet and it's ecology. As a reader of science fiction for about 75 years I have not been very impressed with either Star Wars or Star Trek as science fiction although they were frequently great fun. 2001 was a very worthy effort as was Groundhog Day which most people don't recognize as science fiction. But Avatar made a real effort and did moderately well although the plot was pure cattlemen and Indians. An interesting analysis can be found at http://www.aintitcool.com/node/43440
When you have an astronomical budget and modern digital production technology, depicting a believable alien ecology is much easier than it has ever been. Starwars was never really much about ecologies, and I've never watched too much Trek. I was impressed with Anne McCaffrey's world... really put a lot of thought into it.
The only alien encounters I have found impressive were individual, not planetary. The John Carpenter "The Thing" and "The Invasion of the Body Snatchers" with Donald Southern was well done. "Alien had some good touches but the monstrous growth of the alien with no or little physical input bothered me. The aliens in Avatar were, frankly too human to strike me as truly alien and most of the fauna a flora, although nicely depicted, were variations of land and undersea Earth things. As others have noticed, the floating mountains were simply beyond reason.
You know what, you're right about the flora and fauna being derived from stuff on Earth. I thought about that too but never brought it up. And the aliens being too "human," I thought about that also, like how they had our basic facial and corporeal features, and must have had similar brains to speak a language we could deduce. I'm sure a lot of people think of things like that. I never complained because I doubt I could do better.

They should perhaps do something with a planet filled with machine life one of these days, I'm sure a planet full of things that have evolved beyond comprehension will be the aim of some Hollywood writer in the next 10 to 20 years; having all this technology and shrinking frontier to exercise it in.
Like I said earlier though, it may really go toward cerebral surrealism as well - not quite fantasy, a bit more thematic and laced with ties to reality.
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techstepgenr8tion wrote:
They should perhaps do something with a planet filled with machine life one of these days, I'm sure a planet full of things that have evolved beyond comprehension will be the aim of some Hollywood writer in the next 10 to 20 years; having all this technology and shrinking frontier to exercise it in.
Like I said earlier though, it may really go toward cerebral surrealism as well - not quite fantasy, a bit more thematic and laced with ties to reality.
Like I said earlier though, it may really go toward cerebral surrealism as well - not quite fantasy, a bit more thematic and laced with ties to reality.
Ahem...The Matrix(es)?
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gypsyRN wrote:
Ahem...The Matrix(es)?
It was still an 'evil scheme' that all revolved around us. It would be much more bizarre and interesting if we were completely outside of its dynamics.
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There seem to be a lot of different interpretations. The most obvious one that jumped out to me in the theater was that this was Europeans hunting for gold and killing off North American Indians. It also had the whole pantheist angle to it. The plotline may have been a bit simplistic, but it was a very well-done movie at least in terms of execution, especially in the special effects.
After seeing the movie - just to be contrarian - I complained about some of the plot details. Particularly what sort of idiots would fight a war against a powerful tribal foe in a secluded juggle near ground level? Why not follow Slick Willie's Kosovo campaign and wage war 30,000 feet in the air?
Aside from that I found the ending far too optimistic and ahistorical when one compares it to the outcomes of real imperialism.
DW_a_mom wrote:
Some really good comments about the problems in the plot and the nuances that could have made it a better movie. I enjoyed the movie, and found the world created really beautiful, but I really disliked the portrayal of mankind, and I left the theatre with a negative feeling from that. People and life are much more complex.
I guess James Cameron is less a story guy than a detail guy. He creates amazing shots and scenes, and that is where his real gift seems to be. The plot is just good enough to hold it together, but not as good as it could be.
I guess James Cameron is less a story guy than a detail guy. He creates amazing shots and scenes, and that is where his real gift seems to be. The plot is just good enough to hold it together, but not as good as it could be.
Actually, I sort of liked the subtle misanthropy (not that I'm a full blown self-admitted misanthrop like some people on here - particularly those with usernames that match pseudonymns used by great authors).
There are far to many movies about alien invasions of earth portraying fictional ETs as evil - based on the prospective of humans. There are not enough films portraying humans as seemingly evil, alien entities to other-worldly beings.
The best movie would be to not have any crossing of human and ET beings - it would purely potray the pillaging outsiders from the alien's perspective.
Master_Pedant wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
Some really good comments about the problems in the plot and the nuances that could have made it a better movie. I enjoyed the movie, and found the world created really beautiful, but I really disliked the portrayal of mankind, and I left the theatre with a negative feeling from that. People and life are much more complex.
I guess James Cameron is less a story guy than a detail guy. He creates amazing shots and scenes, and that is where his real gift seems to be. The plot is just good enough to hold it together, but not as good as it could be.
I guess James Cameron is less a story guy than a detail guy. He creates amazing shots and scenes, and that is where his real gift seems to be. The plot is just good enough to hold it together, but not as good as it could be.
Actually, I sort of liked the subtle misanthropy (not that I'm a full blown self-admitted misanthrop like some people on here - particularly those with usernames that match pseudonymns used by great authors).
There are far to many movies about alien invasions of earth portraying fictional ETs as evil - based on the prospective of humans. There are not enough films portraying humans as seemingly evil, alien entities to other-worldly beings.
The best movie would be to not have any crossing of human and ET beings - it would purely potray the pillaging outsiders from the alien's perspective.
Yes, yes a thousand times yes. I would actually pay money to watch a movie like that.
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mjs82 wrote:
Well it's a top bit of entertainment and James Cameron is master craftsman. But as Francois Truffaut said: it an anti-bourgeois film made by the bourgeois for the bourgeois.
Cameron is a billionaire after all and his $250million+ film took a massive amount of resources to produce. Filmmaking is one of the most wasteful artforms on the planet - this coming from one.
Cameron is a billionaire after all and his $250million+ film took a massive amount of resources to produce. Filmmaking is one of the most wasteful artforms on the planet - this coming from one.
"Do I contradict myself? Very well then I contradict myself, I am large, I contain multitudes." - Walt Whitman
DW_a_mom wrote:
Markie wrote:
gypsyRN wrote:
Weren't the "peacemakers" in Avatar the scientists? <snip>
Eh, well said and well observed, gypsyRN!
Not in the way I mean. They had no power or authority, and never did. They were there to butter up the Na'vi so the corporation could do whatever it wanted on that planet. That isn't peace. No one at the top ever wanted to compromise or negotiate. They just wanted to avoid a public relations blunder.
Two observations:
1) Avatar was raided not so much by a public military force but by private Mercenaries. Have you ever read of Blackwater? Or, for that matter, think of KBR and they "don't bring rape issues to outside court?" Imagine what a private company - which can selectively choose what types of people can attend a foregin, largely inaccessible, world (which, I presume, takes years to reach) - can do?
2) Think of ethnic conflict in numerous places. Remove the outside, disinterested parties. Now, try and picture "peacemakers". Everyone in Avatar had a vested interest in the conflict - all humans were employed by the minning corporation and all Na'vi were attached to their native ecosystem.
Lets not forget the the Na'vi are genuinely alien to humans. Xenophobia against indigenious people persisted quite a while as the colonists exterminated them - even among people with above average education, knowledge, or intelligence or all three! As a matter of fact, many nineteenth century American novels empthasized the insidious Amerindians plots while US forces were exterminating them!
Above all, the virtue of Avatar was its avoidance of cliche conciliation - even if the victors were ahistorical.
POSTSCRIPT ADDITION: Furthermore the scientists were would be peacemakers. They minning corporation hired them merely to facillitate cooperation from the Na'vi but the scientists did - through subversion and insubordination - to initiate peace between the humans and Na'vi, but failed because of the narrow constraints of the system they operated in. Lastly, while I never saw "Battle for Terra", but I heard of it - the whole "human pilot selflessly saved by the aliens" who tries to "save the aliens" seemed ridiculously cliche. Good film - if it is art - should radically challenge the mind and nothing does so more than reversing the traditional "alien-human" dynamic.