New Arizona Law called "fundamentally racist."

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I activate the magic card [Scapegoat]! <.< (in reference to last post)

read my first post. if they go thru legal channels to become a citizen i have no problem with them. illegals are here they disobey our laws they dont pay taxes. legal aliens are part of the solution illegals are part of the problem

That is a rather good point. The "baby bomb" is a potent weapon. But little children can be disposed of by nasty covert means, if push comes to shove. If there were a high rate of infant deaths among the poor, then their effective birth rate would be lowered, yes? If an infant dies, is it due to misfortune, like disease or is it due to skullduggery .

One the other hand, as some poor immigrants (legal or illegal) move up in society, as some do, they lower their rate of procreation in order to enjoy the good times.
ruveyn

Not sure what part of the UK she might be living in, but the general consensus about people ACTUALLY from Pakistan/India (as opposed to the people ignorant cretins think of as "pakis") is that they are mostly conscientious, hard-working, legally employed citizens of the United Kingdom, many of whom have lived and worked here for generations, many of whom fought and died for the nation. There IS NOT a huge issue with illegal pakistani immigrants moving here in droves and taking all the jobs at all. Our immigration issues lie firmly and almost exclusively in Europe and the Middle East, and nobody from those regions is a "paki" or a "pakistani".

Thank you, The Scottish Play, I am glad you are clarifying my actual point. The British woman did say 'paki' and it was my own ignorance that thought she was referring to a person from Pakistan. The clarification is so many legal naturalized citizens of Mexican or Central American descent are out of work and lumped into the generalized mix of men waiting in front of Home Depot (a home construction warehouse store) or elderly folks that speak little English that have been legally in the country for years.

While the first Native Americans arrived in Arizona between 16,000 BC and 10,000 BC, and Padre Kino developed a chain of missions and taught the Indians Christianity in southern Arizona and northern Sonora in the 1690s Arizona only became a US State in 1912, so ancient human migratory patterns in that area being regulated by federal law is a relatively new development. ( I mean, it is not like everyone that lived there before it was a State moved out of the state and only "Americans" moved in and settled and now those people are coming back in.) Add to that the more recent Arizona State refusal to honor the Federal Martin Luther King holiday (with a day off) that lead to boycott of the Super Bowl and all things Arizonan, this recent law is shaping up to be a really 'big deal' for the financial future of the State.

interesting, no?

Merle

People in America are against a national ID card, but why?

To do some things you need to show a birth certificate. To get a job you need to show a Social Security card. To get into a bar you need to show ID if you look young.
If you are driving a car then you need to show a driver's license. To open a bank account you must show ID.

So why not have a "total" identity card that absolutely proves you are who you claim to be?

This might be a slight loss of "freedom" for Americans but it would make illegals stand out like a spotlight was on them.

So what "freedom" do you want? The freedom to give a false name to police? The freedom to get a job under a false name so that you can still collect welfare?

That is silly, your asking if an American would rather have freedom or an opportunity to lie to a cop and make money. Also if they made a national ID card i would move to Mexico or Brazil or Maybe Ireland.

To paraphrase... those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.


M.

would anyone support this as an amendment to the US Constitution?

It is, actually. If you have a family member who can sponsor you, you'll get on a long waiting list but will probably make it eventually. If not, you're rather out of luck. Mexico can't participate in the Green Card lottery, the people in question are no educated enough to get permanent residence (and subsequently citizenship) on that basis, and there is no company that can sponsor them because they do not have someone to perform the task inside the United States. All of these methods also require you speak some degree of English and can succeed in the civics test.

Luckily for Mexicans, there is a simpler way: Enter the United States on a temporary visa (much easier to get), have a child. Have a fiesta, because that child is an American citizen! Wait for 21 years (attempting not to draw any attention once you're overstaying the visa) because once the child is 21 years old, you can have them sponsor the whole family for permanent residence.

And such is the problem.

It already is in the U.S. Constitution. 14th amendment I think.

ruveyn

I wasn't questioning where it was from, I was asking if anyone would co sign to this amendment.

Americans can own property in Mexico. There are restriction within 100 kilometers of the border, but the Mexican holding company takes care of that, they own 51% on paper, and are in debt for it.

Returning from Mexico Americans have to have a passport to get back in, nothing else works.

Mexicans cross the border to shop, it is a very open border through checkpoints.

We used to have a program, Braceros, Mexicans who came for jobs, and were protected.

Cesar Chavez and the United Farm Workers tried to unionize them, the Braceros program closed, and the growers hired illegals, who could not unionize. Braceros people went home after the harvest, illegals stayed.

We should have a guest worker program. But contract labor should not come and then demand more than they contracted for. Chavez was extorting the growers who made the program work.

There is legal immigration from Mexico, we have day shoppers, tourists, students, all with papers.

While it is true some overstay their visa, they were cleared to come. We also do have shortages of some workers, nurses are in short supply, but education varies, and they can still work in health care.

Landed immigrants have a Green Card, they are on their way to becoming citizens. People vouch for them, they have jobs lined up, they will make America a better place. For one they are better educated about the American system than the citizens.

Besides quotas, we have an open door to those who would invest, or who are educated in special skills. Our legal paths to citizenship are not overly restrictive.

Immigrants are not the problem, they have had health and background checks, most people are law abiding good people.

What does not have papers is the problem, coming in the night to hide from the Mexican Police. The poor oppressed hit man for the Sinola Cartel, hiding from the people in Juarez who would shoot him down on sight.

They get arrested, convicted, do long prison time, are deported, than cross the border again. I think we have more Mexicans in jail than Mexico does. It gets expensive.

We have always had a casual border, many Mexican children cross over to go to school, some for the day, some for the year, and most make good friends along the border. Many cross at the check points, some wade, the Border Patrol stays well back, twenty miles north is another story.

The problems come from those who could not get out of Mexico, they would be arrested, or into the US, they would be turned back, who come and do as they will, find jail a vacation and new friends, then get deported and return.

The only answer is to tighten up the border between checkpoints, where the Border Patrol will ask for ID, and deport anyone who cannot prove they should be here. That works.

The problem is no one is checking back from the border zone. If they get past the zone, they are here, untill arrested for crime, conviction, jail, deported, and back again. They come for work, but they are robbers, burglers, kidnapers, drug runners, murder for hire, Most of their crime is commited on the Spanish speaking community, who are here legally, since 1600, or WWII, or the Mexican Revolution.

Yes, they may look like a lot of other people, but the other people can produce proof that they live here. These people have nothing, maybe a copy of a social securty card that says they are Mary Jane Smith, but this guy does not look like a Smith.

Hey, if I don't have my wallet with me (and if I'm not driving, I may not have it - it's uncomfortable when I sit), I can't prove that I'm a citizen. After all, unlike certain other regimes, we allow our citizens the freedom to travel within the borders of our country without needing official paperwork. I think I like it better that way.

Hey, here's an idea - how about we once again separate the Border Patrol from this "Homeland Security" nonsense, and increase the budget for actual patrol officers back up to what it was during the Clinton Administration, before Bush slashed it to help hide the cost of two off-the-books wars and all that "fighting terrorism here at home" crap? Just a thought...

Check up on US Law, citizens are required to produce ID, and are subject to arrest if they cannot.

Those who claim no ID, are then researched to find who they really are.

The Police can hold anyone for 72 hours without cause or charge.

Many traffic stops are because the person looks like someone, or just looks strange, and ID, running a wants and warrents, if it comes back clear, turn into a verbal warning, not a ticket.

We have millions in jail, and at least a million that would be if we could catch them.

These are mostly citizens, this is how it goes.

Now we cannot go after criminals, because they look like illegals?

The illegals are going to file a Class Action Lawsuit?

They are all guilty of the crime of being here, so all other crimes are racist?

They are illegals, so they do not have a Social Security number, you try not paying Social Security on your earnings, it is a crime.

They do not file taxes, you can try that too.Big time crime. The IRS would go after all of the assets of any citizen who evaded taxas, with big fines and jail time. Illegals claim they ar not covered by the law, they are illegals, and can do anything illegal, an only a racist clansman would object.

So for all their claims of doing jobs Americans would not, well, they got Capone on Tax Evasion.

So ignoring our border laws, tax laws, all laws, they now form mobs and demand for us to shut up?

They, and the people who hire them, are driving down wages, and putting more of a tax burden on those who do pay.

They also ret*d our economic development, for many low paid and dangerous jobs have been elimated, and better safe, and higher paying means of doing them are developed when the real costs are considered.

Things are being done that could not be done by legal means, Legal American business cannot compete with those who break the law.

So We the People pay for it, high taxes, stagnant wages, no new technology, and the spill over of crime that goes beyond just evading taxes.

Telling us how to run our country, by calling us racists, is about like a prison protest.

We have seen what having them here leads to, lets see how things would be without them.

Perhaps we would be begging them to come back, or perhaps with lower costs, higher tax compliance, less crime, less in prison, we would put up a much better border defense, and never want them back.

Not enforcing one law undermines all others, so why should I pay taxes when 15,000,000 don't?

We need a national tax audit, and get rid of all those with offshore accounts, those who do not pay Social Security and Income Tax, and those who are stealing tax money and sending it out of the country.

Every illegal who works here is a tax evader. Every person who hires them is a tax evader.

Tax evasion is a Felony, strip them of their assets, fine them, make them convicted felons, and deport them. Everything but being deported applies to me.

We will never run out of good law abiding people who want to emigrate to the US, they are being denied the chance by these criminals.

I do not think we should put them in jail, just give them five years and deport them, and if they ever show up again, hard time.

We do not need criminals when we can have the brightest and best from the world.

They will start new industries, create jobs, pay taxes, and wear a Green Card around their neck in a golden frame, proud to be becoming Americans.