Just a thought on abortion

Post Reply New Topic

I don't have heroes. Dr. Kevorkian has good points and bad like anyone else. I support euthinasia. What does Attila the Hun have to do with anything??



You did'nt grow up in my family. They used emotional blackmail to make us belive like they did. "If you don't love Jesus, then you don't love ME" and other coercive tactics were used.



Why do you care what I think?? I don't care what anyone thinks of me.


I look at it this way. Christianity is a flat-tiped screwdriver. It's a good tool when used for its intended purpose, but most people abuse it. If you use your beliefs to make you a better person. that's O.K.
If you think that the bible is the 100% infalible perfect absulote truth divinely inspired by the almighty creator of the universe, it takes brain-washing to arive at that conclusion. I feel the same about Muslims and Scientologists.

Abortion is always murder and discussion about that is nonsense.Abortion will be rated as one of the biggest crimes in history.

My simplistic reasoning is the assertion that "this is MY body, to do with as MY mind sees fit".

I don't believe it's right to punish me for engaging in sex by enforcing pregnancy upon me. It's wrong to force me to continue feeding a fetus through the very substance of my own body, if I am dead-set against enduring that experience.

Sure others will consider that an inflammatory quote, but I agree w/your opinion.
I don't presume to tell another whether they ought to (or not) have kids. I believe in each individual's autonomy in choosing if they wish to participate in creating offspring. Consider unborn as part of the woman's body, not as separate valid being (sorry if that offends). I insist on retaining my right to refuse the outcome of pregnancy. I'm not gonna' be the one to add to our tax burden by creating an unwanted child that will need a lifetime of therapy (at public cost, 'cause I'm poor) to get over ruining my life-which is how I'd see it.
It may be "nature" for women to get pregnant often, but it's also nature that would contribute to death of that life. We humans use nature however it suits us, and we resist it when it gets in our way. It's natural to spontaneously abort & miscarry a fetus, for a female to seek out edible plants in environment that might cause that to happen (on purpose or by accident), or for a mother to die during childbirth. It's natural for many infants to die young (then there need to be more children to make up for those lost). It's natural for teenagers to engage in risky behaviors & get killed, or later while competing for resources or partners. It's natural for middle aged or elderly people to die off (instead they start new families). And so on...
I'd say both life & death are equally "natural" or "right". Each of us applies personal perspective to detailed specifics, operating from unshared rulebooks. What IS natural now anyway, considering the environment we inhabit (which is nothing like the one we evolved from)?
Yet we choose (to extent possible) how we're each going to privately deal with these parameters given us. Life & death is hybrid of pre-set limitations AND "free will". IMHO.
Wandered far off-topic-Ooops!

Scrapheap! You surprise me! I had no idea you were so relational. I bet all of your friendships are warm and fulfilling!

Personal insults are a sign I won the debate. :p

FOUR FEET GOOD TWO FEET BAD
FOUR FEET GOOD TWO FEET BAD
FOUR FEET GOOD TWO FEET BAD
FOUR FEET GOOD TWO FEET BAD
FOUR FEET GOOD TWO FEET BAD
FOUR FEET GOOD TWO FEET BAD

Scrapheap wrote: Personal insults are a sign I won the debate. :p


I'm not insulting your person. Your own remarks show your steely p.o.v. and I am not debating you, either so whatever!

I cannot understand why so many people are so emotional over the subject of abortion. Logic and reason just fly out the window when the subject comes up.

Abortion does not equal murder. A fetus in the early stages of growth is a collection of cells with potential, not a fully-developed being. And as someone pointed out, the body may self-abort (miscarry) during a pregnancy. It's natural and probably prevents the birth of infants who would not survive for long anyway. Would the christian anti-abortion viewpoint extend to condemning a woman as somehow sinful if she could not carry a child to term?

There are many women who, for whatever reason, are unsuited to motherhood. Burdening the rest of us with the cost of care of their unwanted and/or defective progeny isn't fair either. Abortion is the only rational alternative so long as people are unwilling or unable to stop doing the thing that creates the problem in the first place.

*stalks over to sit in the 'steely and cold' corner with scrapheap and emp*

For anyone wondering, Scrapheap is making a reference to the classic book "Animal Farm" by George Orwell. I have a copy on my bookshelf. It is a good book to read for anyone who wants to raise their awareness level regarding human society. The book features animal characters but is really about human behaviors. The description on the back cover says:

"Having got rid of their human master, the animals of Manor Farm look forward to a life of freedom and plenty. But as a clever, ruthless elite among them takes control, the other animals find themselves hopelessly ensnared in the old ways. Orwell's chilling story of the betrayal of idealism through tyranny and corruption is as fresh and relevant today as when it was first published in 1945."

In the book, the dumb sheep mindlessly parrot what was fed to them by the tyrannical pigs, chanting "Four legs good, two legs bad!" over and over, without even thinking about it. There is no justification or substantiation of why four legs is good and two legs is bad, it just simply believed and repeated by the dumb unthinking sheep.

Similarly, ChildoftheSun's statement is a belief stated without any substantiation or reasoning or evidence to support it. Like how "Four legs good, two legs bad!" was the unsubstantiated belief mindlessly repeated by the sheep.

Said simply, ChildoftheSun's comment is completely worthless because it does not include any reasoning or anything to support the opinion/belief. Only sheep can be convinced by such a statement. Sheep will believe it without asking "Why?".

It seems that on the other side of "super-pious" there exists "secularly pompous". In either case there is no use in talking because of the closed mindedness and overgrown egos involved which prohibits real communication and always leads to that "better than thou" attitude that we just read in emp's post.

I think emp did a good job of explaining my "FOUR FEET GOOD TWO FEET BAD" comment. ChildoftheSun gave no reasoning for his comment. ESPICIALY why discusing the issue is nonsense. Abortion is a legitimate issue to debate. There are valid points on both sides. I was an anti-abortionist when I was younger. It took years of seeing evidence for me to change my mind on the issue.

It is true that I should be careful to ensure my ego is not inflated too much. For example, knowing that religion is a scam makes me better than most people. But how much better? Well, not really much better at all because it only requires a mere modicum of intelligence to realize that religion is absurd. So I am not exactly demonstrating my prowess in anything fantastic.

All I have achieved in this is realizing the frickin' obvious. This makes me better than... people who have failed to realize the frickin' obvious. It means that I am a little bit smarter than chimps. Well woop-de-frickin'-doo, it is not exactly an impressive achievement of mine, is it?

My realization of the frickin' obvious is nothing compared to say, the scientists/engineers who put men on the moon, or engineers who designed a bridge. So it is true that I should not allow my ego to grow large from realizing that religion is a scam -- it is only a very basic and modest achievement that anyone with half a brain can do.

I would LIKE to think that realizing that religion is a scam makes me a genius, but truth be told, it is not impressive at all because it is such an obvious thing to realize.