Animal cruelty

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greenblue
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22 Aug 2010, 8:27 pm

Dox47 wrote:

Firstly, I've never hunted in my life, but you're far from the first person here to make that assumption.

well, I think I remembered you mentioning owning hunting guns, but not the hunt itself, and my reply was merely because of it, but I might have been mistaken, if you don't own them.

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Even if I did hunt, I'd still consider it more "ethical" than buying mass market meat, the animal lives it's life in the wild without interference until it is brought down by a predator, I'd even go so far as to say a rifle bullet is probably quicker and less painful than the teeth and claws of other woodland predators.

well, I agree with the latter, however I also tend to agree with animal activists that hunting for sport seems cruel.

Quote:

Nice try with the red herring though.

It was more like a humorus comment, given that you are a gun enthusiast, and I didn't much expect a reply.

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Dox47
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22 Aug 2010, 10:04 pm

greenblue wrote:

It was more like a humorus comment, given that you are a gun enthusiast, and I didn't much expect a reply.

It's all good, some people around here think that they can sidetrack me by randomly trashing guns, so I tend to operate under the assumption that random gun references in threads I'm participating in are meant to distract me.

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skafather84
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22 Aug 2010, 10:32 pm

Want to oppose animal cruelty? Boycott those horrible animal costumes that some people love to force upon their pets.

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DW_a_mom
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22 Aug 2010, 10:55 pm

greenblue wrote:

well, I agree with the latter, however I also tend to agree with animal activists that hunting for sport seems cruel.

Every hunter I've ever met assures me that they eat it. I think the hunting communities internal ethics require it.

I hate the idea of hunting, and was never able to date a guy who admitted he hunted, but the clubs and organizations hunters form actually tend to have some solid and respectable guidelines.

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Dox47
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22 Aug 2010, 11:11 pm

While we're on the topic of hunting, I'd like to point out that hunters are almost universally conservationists, and millions of dollars from hunting tags goes into habitat preservation in the US alone. Additionally, sport hunting plays a valuable role in regulating the populations of herbivores that can strip the land if allowed to over breed, and brings much needed funds to impoverished nations in the form of safari hunting. An interesting sub note is that countries that allow hunting of elephants, for example, have much lower rates of poaching and greater populations growth in their elephants because the people that live there now see them as a valuable resource and not a dangerous nuisance. Like most things, hunting and it's impact is not as simple as it may seem.

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23 Aug 2010, 12:13 am

dox 47 has alluded to the assumption that no one advocates animal cruelty. that is not correct. there are lots of undercover video's of severe animal cruelty, intentionally inflicted, available from many animal advocacy groups.
try in defense of animals, mercy for animals, last chance for animals, farm sanctuary and everyone's favorite, peta.

dvd's for you to watch. unmistakeable actions for you to see for yourself. factory farms, fur producers, puppy mills, asian food markets, bull-fight preparation, on and on and on.

intentional. absolute certainty. no possible other interpretation. it's easy to pretend it doesn't exist. "oh no, don't tell me such things, i don't want to hear it or see it." i hear this all the time and it's especially hard when it comes from someone who claims to be for animal rights. no one wants to know the truth because, like dox47, they want to believe humans are not quite that terrible.

i'm trying to be truthful without being in your face. how about this: people who own agri-businesses do not care how animals are treated. they only care about profits.

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23 Aug 2010, 12:58 am

gratuitous cruelty to sentient animals (be they human or other) is a base, stupid and unnecessary practice. If we are going to eat animals for their flesh then we should dispatch them with as little pain as possible. If we are going to use animals to do our work then we should treat them with some kindness. If we are going to sacrifice animals in medical tests then we should do it as painlessly as possible.

I would advocate being humane for a rationally selfish reason. Being gratuitously cruel to sentient beasts would tend to make us base, insensitive and stupid. That would be our loss for the dubious gain from the pleasures (such as they are) of cruelty.

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DW_a_mom
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23 Aug 2010, 1:19 am

danandlouie wrote:

Saying that no one advocates is not the same as no one engages in. Those that do aren't usually out bragging about it; if they have brains, they are aware that what they are doing is not consistent with popular opinion. This is an area where the activists have worked hard and are bringing about real public awareness, and it is slowly having an affect. We're getting the footage, and we're learning to vote against certain practices with our pocket books. I won't argue that there isn't further to go, but I think the vast majority of citizens are in agreement that doing better is something that can and should be accomplished. No one is advocating (at least not publicly and effectively) that we turn back the clocks and pretend that there was nothing wrong with many of those cruel agribusiness practices. There will always be issues of balance, to make sure that those with less financial resources still have affordable food purchase options, but the movement is definitely there.

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Last edited by DW_a_mom on 23 Aug 2010, 1:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

DW_a_mom
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23 Aug 2010, 1:21 am

Dox47 wrote:

conservationists

There is a term I was searching for earlier, and couldn't manage to pull from my head. Aging is seriously ... unsettling, at times.

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RedHanrahan
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28 Aug 2010, 4:29 am

luvsterriers wrote:

Maddox?

I did try a vegan diet for few days and couldn't do it. I do not eat lamb, veal or baby back ribs. I can't have any soy products so I can't be a vegan.

Soy milk makes me sick. I tried the veggie hot dogs and got so sick from the taste. I do eat veggie burgers as long as they don't have soy. I also tried veggie chicken strips and the taste was awful. But when dining out I do tend to get mostly vegetables. I love to eat seafood such as salmon. I don't eat lobsters or crabs though. The other day I had Vegetarian Pho Noodles and it was actually quite good. I can avoid all poultry and red meats products, but never seafood. Being half Korean I do eat tons of vegetables.

I am a soy free vegan quite successfully. I do however once in a blue moon eat some fish or blue cheese [each maybe once a year]
I went vegetarian 28 years ago no sweat.
Nuts are good, nuts are good, nuts are good...

peace j

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02 Sep 2010, 9:22 am

For the umpteenth time...WHY???? Why is an arbitrary difference in DNA considered of no moral relevance (now) when it produces a different gender or skin color, but can justify untold horrors when it comes to species differentiation?

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Bethie
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02 Sep 2010, 9:28 am

RedHanrahan wrote:

luvsterriers wrote:

Maddox?

I did try a vegan diet for few days and couldn't do it. I do not eat lamb, veal or baby back ribs. I can't have any soy products so I can't be a vegan.

Same here, soy-free vegan. I think many people can't conceptualize what a diet without even "faux" milk or meat would consist of.

iamnotaparakeet
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02 Sep 2010, 9:35 am

Bethie wrote:

RedHanrahan wrote:

luvsterriers wrote:

Maddox?

I did try a vegan diet for few days and couldn't do it. I do not eat lamb, veal or baby back ribs. I can't have any soy products so I can't be a vegan.

Same here, soy-free vegan. I think many people can't conceptualize what a diet without even "faux" milk or meat would consist of.

For many of the vitamins, fruits, such as citrus fruits are necessary. Also, protein requires amino acids, the same which are derived from meat are equally derivable from rice and beans, bread and peanut butter, and a few other combinations. Starches can come from potatoes, fats from olive oil, and all fruits have fructose and all leafy greens have glucose, and some plants have sucrose (dehydrated cane juice, anyone?) Vitamin B12 can be taken from either yeast or, I think, seaweed.

ruveyn
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02 Sep 2010, 1:39 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

While meat free diets can indeed provide sufficient protein to produce the amino acids necessary to our lives and health, the most efficient (which is to say concentrated) sources are animal flesh and diary products. The reason why the human race became smart is because they ate the flesh of animals.

ruveyn

iamnotaparakeet
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02 Sep 2010, 1:53 pm

ruveyn wrote:

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Ruveyn, in terms of natural selection if the mechanisms/traits required derive the amino acids from plants were to convey no survival advantage, then eventually such mechanisms/traits would be lost. Such would decrease the amount of genes, and overall potential functionality of the organism in future generations.

Now, you mention that eating meat is what caused the human race to have become smart. I'm fairly well assuming that you don't have any type of psychometric data from way way back when, so where do you get this conclusion from?

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02 Sep 2010, 5:57 pm

Bethie wrote:

Since you're referring to untold horrors, I'm assuming that you're referring to actual animal abuse, which isn't legal anywhere I've ever been to.

Second, you're confusing the tiny difference in DNA with the actual differences between humans and animals. It isn't a question of what percentage of DNA is different, and it never was.

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