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ruveyn
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12 Sep 2010, 8:09 pm

Master_Pedant wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

Master_Pedant wrote:

As for whether it's wise to miss Bush - NO. His fecklessness contributed significantly to the Depression and it's about time you stop fantasizing that a change in administration suddenly un-does the bad of the former.

Not a Depression - yet. But give Obama some time and it will be.

ruveyn

The distinction is vague to nonexistent. The US has been set back for several years and the standard of living has permanently declined. That's enough to make a Depression in my books.

Watch how Lord Obama will make a bad thing even worse. Then you can blame that on Dubyah also.

ruveyn

Master_Pedant
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12 Sep 2010, 8:10 pm

ruveyn wrote:

Master_Pedant wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

Master_Pedant wrote:

Not a Depression - yet. But give Obama some time and it will be.

ruveyn

The distinction is vague to nonexistent. The US has been set back for several years and the standard of living has permanently declined. That's enough to make a Depression in my books.

Watch how Lord Obama will make a bad thing even worse. Then you can blame that on Dubyah also.

ruveyn

I'm sure he'll make worse when he gives into Tea Partisan demands for austerity measures.

iamnotaparakeet
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13 Sep 2010, 3:31 pm

Master_Pedant wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

Master_Pedant wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

Master_Pedant wrote:

Not a Depression - yet. But give Obama some time and it will be.

ruveyn

The distinction is vague to nonexistent. The US has been set back for several years and the standard of living has permanently declined. That's enough to make a Depression in my books.

Watch how Lord Obama will make a bad thing even worse. Then you can blame that on Dubyah also.

ruveyn

I'm sure he'll make worse when he gives into Tea Partisan demands for austerity measures.

Nah, how about repeating the "stimulus" package ad nauseum and raising taxes to make up for the "free" money he's throwing around?

LKL
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13 Sep 2010, 3:49 pm

Master_Pedant wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

Master_Pedant wrote:

Not a Depression - yet. But give Obama some time and it will be.

ruveyn

The distinction is vague to nonexistent. The US has been set back for several years and the standard of living has permanently declined. That's enough to make a Depression in my books.

http://economics.about.com/cs/businessc ... ssions.htm

I agree with you wrt. the distinction, but this has been coming for decades. W might have accelerated things a bit, but even he can't take the entire blame; real wages have been declining, corporate profits and income disparities increasing, costs of higher education increasing, etc.

I graduated in '94, and I can remember talking about this in high school; I'm just surprised it took this long for the s**t to really hit the fan. As for why Obama hasn't "fixed" everything yet ...?! You can't fix in two years what took decades to destroy.

Bethie
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13 Sep 2010, 3:56 pm

ruveyn wrote:

You Fools! You thought voting for Obama would improve matters, didn't you? Didn't you? You silly, silly yokels! Well, you guys voted for him, now we are all stuck with him.

ruveyn

Yeah, I did vote for him. And now, thanks to his support for comprehensive health care reform, I was allowed to stay on my parents insurance, and can therefore afford several medications which keep me ALIVE.

That alone makes my vote more than worth it to me and my family.

_________________
For there is another kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions; indifference and inaction and slow decay.

auntblabby
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14 Sep 2010, 8:02 am

Bethie wrote:

Yeah, I did vote for him. And now, thanks to his support for comprehensive health care reform, I was allowed to stay on my parents insurance, and can therefore afford several medications which keep me ALIVE. That alone makes my vote more than worth it to me and my family.

american conservatives in general, just HATE it when the struggling folks get any break at all. for repubs, it is just "sink or swim" and the religious element among them literally believes that failures deserved to burn in hell. a new tea party slogan i saw on a placard one of 'em was waving around, said "let failures fail!" there is just too much meanness and spite.

ruveyn
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14 Sep 2010, 8:45 am

auntblabby wrote:

Even so, giving free rides indiscriminately has a way of weakening ambition, resolve and focus. Hand outs cut both ways.

Look what happened in England under socialism. Its productivity declined to third world level thanks to the Trades Unions.

ruveyn

auntblabby
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14 Sep 2010, 9:03 am

ruveyn wrote:

Look what happened in England under socialism. Its productivity declined to third world level thanks to the Trades Unions.

there is more to life and living than the mercenary focus on the bottom line. i like what the rest of the western world has to offer its citizens, and i am frankly envious of them and their moral enlightenment over our "sink-or-swim" system.

iamnotaparakeet
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14 Sep 2010, 9:08 am

auntblabby wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

Look what happened in England under socialism. Its productivity declined to third world level thanks to the Trades Unions.

Like in one nation that a patient was "euthanized" due to needing a hospital bed?

auntblabby
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14 Sep 2010, 9:14 am

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Like in one nation that a patient was "euthanized" due to needing a hospital bed?

i, for one, will not knock euthanasia. they shoot horses, don't they? :roll:

just how was this patient "euthanized" anyway?

Sand
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14 Sep 2010, 9:22 am

ruveyn wrote:

auntblabby wrote:

And China today is doing marvelously under communism, of a sort. I'm sure that when Americans under their system manage to discourage the working population to the extent of accepting Chinese level wages businesses will do fine.

iamnotaparakeet
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14 Sep 2010, 9:22 am

auntblabby wrote:

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Like in one nation that a patient was "euthanized" due to needing a hospital bed?

i, for one, will not knock euthanasia. they shoot horses, don't they? :roll:

just how was this patient "euthanized" anyway?

Who shoots horses? I don't. I can't stand to watch the helpless die, much less cause it.

How was the patient executed? Probably in a very sterile and sanitary manner... I don't know, it was about three years ago and I think it was in Holland.

auntblabby
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14 Sep 2010, 9:29 am

Sand wrote:

oh, the horror :cry:

gives new meaning to the phrase "wage slavery."

ruveyn
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14 Sep 2010, 9:39 am

Sand wrote:

China buried Marxism along with the bones of Mao Tse Dung.

China is now a thug ruled industrial nation with some of the trappings of the free market, but mostly run by and for the benefit of the ruling Thugocracy.

One of the ways in which the Thugocracy rules without too much overt brutality is to co-opt and encourage a growing middle class.

China is no longer communist and it has not been for some time. Proof? Look at how they left the workings of Hong Kong largely intact from its era of British administration.

ruveyn

auntblabby
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14 Sep 2010, 9:42 am

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

auntblabby wrote:

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Like in one nation that a patient was "euthanized" due to needing a hospital bed?

i, for one, will not knock euthanasia. they shoot horses, don't they? :roll:

just how was this patient "euthanized" anyway?

Who shoots horses? I don't. I can't stand to watch the helpless die, much less cause it.

i was cynically referring-to the way american mercenary medicine works, i.e., if you don't have money you might as well be a horse with a busted leg who gets shot and put out of his misery. if one "can't stand to watch the helpless die," then it would be a good thing if one did not oppose health care financing reform which would allow truly useful and therapeutic medical coverage to be extended to those for whom it presently is not available due to financial concerns. i for one find it an onerous burden to be sick and not have sufficient duckies to get a medico to look at me. contrary to what conservatives in general think about this type of misfortune, it CAN happen to just about anybody, other than billionaires.

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

How was the patient executed? Probably in a very sterile and sanitary manner... I don't know, it was about three years ago and I think it was in Holland.

hell

"sterile and sanitary" beats dying in the street.

ruveyn
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14 Sep 2010, 9:56 am

auntblabby wrote:

In the U.S. a flat broke person will receive medical care at public expense. In the U.S. the real victims are middle class folk who have too much to receive assistance on the dole and too little to afford proper care without insurance. By and large, no one is left to die. However, the manner and mode of care for those who are not insured or who cannot pay is not the most gracious.

For example in Boston Mass. the gunshot and stab wound treatment center of the world is Boston City Hospital. They have the finest trauma unit in the country. Why? Because in the Negro Section of Boston (Roxburry) gunshot wounds are the most are the most common injury, right before stab wounds. The victims are taken to the trauma unit at Boston City Hospital and patched up at public expense. Many of the military doctors first received their training to treat gunshot and stab wounds at Boston City. Crack O.D. is handled more at Mass General over near the Charles River.

ruveyn

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