What does the U.S Get from its support of Israel?
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,751
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
25 May 2011, 6:10 pm
Inuyasha wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
For all we know, the taxpayer money is in reality interest payments because they own quite a bit of the US debt, it wouldn't surprise me.
Do you have any facts to back that up?
ruveyn
I haven't looked it up beyond the fact that Israel is a net lender not a net borrower. As for who all the US owes money, I'm pointing out that it quite honestly would not surprise me if we actually do owe Israel money.
Considering all we've done for them, and the cost to ourselves for that support, anyone suggesting such a thing does so at the risk of being pummeled.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
So did you realize you are advocating for a people to set themselves up to be slaughtered?
Absolutely not! I never said anything like discontinuing aid for Israel. Rather, I cast doubt on our country owing money to Israel.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
25 May 2011, 6:11 pm
blauSamstag wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
I hate having to repeat myself:
Last I checked beating people with steel pipes doesn't remotely sound peaceful. Last I checked, calling for the slaughter of Jews, is not advocating for peace. Last I checked, stealing people's firearms (referring to your peaceful flotilla) and then opening fire with said firearms when the Israelis had not fired is hardly peaceful.
You either don't know what the term "peace" means, or you've been played for an idiot by the mainstream media.
Last I checked beating people with steel pipes doesn't remotely sound peaceful. Last I checked, calling for the slaughter of Jews, is not advocating for peace. Last I checked, stealing people's firearms (referring to your peaceful flotilla) and then opening fire with said firearms when the Israelis had not fired is hardly peaceful.
You either don't know what the term "peace" means, or you've been played for an idiot by the mainstream media.
If you had been born in gaza, what would you do?
No jobs. No money. No food. No medical care. Essentially an open-air prison with deplorable conditions, enforced by a foreigner.
The violence has been going on for as long as you can remember, and there are five of your people dead for each one of theirs.
Do you suppose you might take offense? Maybe get a little angry?
You left out the fact of the rocket attacks, suicide bombers, etc. which is why Israel put up the blockade in the first place. Did you leave that fact out deliberately, or did it just slip your mind?
25 May 2011, 6:12 pm
Inuyasha wrote:
blauSamstag wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
I hate having to repeat myself:
Last I checked beating people with steel pipes doesn't remotely sound peaceful. Last I checked, calling for the slaughter of Jews, is not advocating for peace. Last I checked, stealing people's firearms (referring to your peaceful flotilla) and then opening fire with said firearms when the Israelis had not fired is hardly peaceful.
You either don't know what the term "peace" means, or you've been played for an idiot by the mainstream media.
Last I checked beating people with steel pipes doesn't remotely sound peaceful. Last I checked, calling for the slaughter of Jews, is not advocating for peace. Last I checked, stealing people's firearms (referring to your peaceful flotilla) and then opening fire with said firearms when the Israelis had not fired is hardly peaceful.
You either don't know what the term "peace" means, or you've been played for an idiot by the mainstream media.
If you had been born in gaza, what would you do?
No jobs. No money. No food. No medical care. Essentially an open-air prison with deplorable conditions, enforced by a foreigner.
The violence has been going on for as long as you can remember, and there are five of your people dead for each one of theirs.
Do you suppose you might take offense? Maybe get a little angry?
You left out the fact of the rocket attacks, suicide bombers, etc. which is why Israel put up the blockade in the first place. Did you leave that fact out deliberately, or did it just slip your mind?
And everything was roses before then, right?
25 May 2011, 6:19 pm
blauSamstag wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
blauSamstag wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
I hate having to repeat myself:
Last I checked beating people with steel pipes doesn't remotely sound peaceful. Last I checked, calling for the slaughter of Jews, is not advocating for peace. Last I checked, stealing people's firearms (referring to your peaceful flotilla) and then opening fire with said firearms when the Israelis had not fired is hardly peaceful.
You either don't know what the term "peace" means, or you've been played for an idiot by the mainstream media.
Last I checked beating people with steel pipes doesn't remotely sound peaceful. Last I checked, calling for the slaughter of Jews, is not advocating for peace. Last I checked, stealing people's firearms (referring to your peaceful flotilla) and then opening fire with said firearms when the Israelis had not fired is hardly peaceful.
You either don't know what the term "peace" means, or you've been played for an idiot by the mainstream media.
If you had been born in gaza, what would you do?
No jobs. No money. No food. No medical care. Essentially an open-air prison with deplorable conditions, enforced by a foreigner.
The violence has been going on for as long as you can remember, and there are five of your people dead for each one of theirs.
Do you suppose you might take offense? Maybe get a little angry?
You left out the fact of the rocket attacks, suicide bombers, etc. which is why Israel put up the blockade in the first place. Did you leave that fact out deliberately, or did it just slip your mind?
And everything was roses before then, right?
Nope, but if you study your history you would realize that Jordan, Syria, and Egypt invaded what was supposed to be Palestine as soon as Israel became a country. Israel didn't take those lands away from those three countries until 1967. The Palestinians would have a much better case about Israel being a bully if they hadn't been launching rockets into Israel and blowing up their own children in crowded marketplaces.
Would you use your own 5 year-old boy or girl as a guided explosive? Israel wouldn't have blockaded Gaza if not for the terrorist attacks, hell we probably would have already seen a Palestinian state by now.
MarketAndChurch
Veteran
Joined: 3 Apr 2011
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,022
Location: The Peoples Republic Of Portland
25 May 2011, 6:21 pm
ruveyn wrote:
MarketAndChurch wrote:
We get our values lived out in this part of the world. Democracy, Liberty, In God We Trust, Life, and Happiness. It provides for a Liberal, Secular society where linear thinking allows for the notion that there is progress to be made in this world, which to become an Israeli is to simply become a citizen, thus embracing E Pluribus Unum in every sense of the phrase(unlike the tribalistic neighbors that surrounds Israel.)
This is why we spend so much money in this little country of Israel.
.
This is why we spend so much money in this little country of Israel.
.
Pretty thin gruel for a high price. I think Israel should be supported by voluntary contributions, not tax loot.
ruveyn
But must be consistent in that if money is the issue, we should cut off all foreign aid to all countries. Our total foreign aid is always above 25 billion dollars a year. Israel recieves 3 billion, and Egypt recievs 1.5 billion. The continent of Africa receives between 5 to 10 billion. We'll spend a total of 20 billion over the next 3 years as part of Obama's plan to help poor countries with their agriculture. Through 2015, we should be spending 48 billion to help fight AIDS, Malaria, and tuburculosis in Africa. And there are many other programs we've established to help with economic development, literacy, democracy, education, women's rights, etc.
It is a long list of countries who are on that list of recipients of US foreign aid, why Israel? It's such a small portion of the amount we spend annually and there is actually a net benefit to it...
_________________
It is not up to you to finish the task, nor are you free to desist from trying.
25 May 2011, 6:24 pm
Inuyasha wrote:
blauSamstag wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
blauSamstag wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
I hate having to repeat myself:
Last I checked beating people with steel pipes doesn't remotely sound peaceful. Last I checked, calling for the slaughter of Jews, is not advocating for peace. Last I checked, stealing people's firearms (referring to your peaceful flotilla) and then opening fire with said firearms when the Israelis had not fired is hardly peaceful.
You either don't know what the term "peace" means, or you've been played for an idiot by the mainstream media.
Last I checked beating people with steel pipes doesn't remotely sound peaceful. Last I checked, calling for the slaughter of Jews, is not advocating for peace. Last I checked, stealing people's firearms (referring to your peaceful flotilla) and then opening fire with said firearms when the Israelis had not fired is hardly peaceful.
You either don't know what the term "peace" means, or you've been played for an idiot by the mainstream media.
If you had been born in gaza, what would you do?
No jobs. No money. No food. No medical care. Essentially an open-air prison with deplorable conditions, enforced by a foreigner.
The violence has been going on for as long as you can remember, and there are five of your people dead for each one of theirs.
Do you suppose you might take offense? Maybe get a little angry?
You left out the fact of the rocket attacks, suicide bombers, etc. which is why Israel put up the blockade in the first place. Did you leave that fact out deliberately, or did it just slip your mind?
And everything was roses before then, right?
Nope, but if you study your history you would realize that Jordan, Syria, and Egypt invaded what was supposed to be Palestine as soon as Israel became a country. Israel didn't take those lands away from those three countries until 1967. The Palestinians would have a much better case about Israel being a bully if they hadn't been launching rockets into Israel and blowing up their own children in crowded marketplaces.
Would you use your own 5 year-old boy or girl as a guided explosive? Israel wouldn't have blockaded Gaza if not for the terrorist attacks, hell we probably would have already seen a Palestinian state by now.
Yeah we all know whats going on here. Check the maps showing the settlements..israel is trying to choke out the palestinians from their land. Its a strategic process..and a deliberate one. I dont approve of terrorism but the actions of the palestinians are out of desperation..
_________________
VERITAS LVX MEA
25 May 2011, 6:25 pm
MarketAndChurch wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
MarketAndChurch wrote:
We get our values lived out in this part of the world. Democracy, Liberty, In God We Trust, Life, and Happiness. It provides for a Liberal, Secular society where linear thinking allows for the notion that there is progress to be made in this world, which to become an Israeli is to simply become a citizen, thus embracing E Pluribus Unum in every sense of the phrase(unlike the tribalistic neighbors that surrounds Israel.)
This is why we spend so much money in this little country of Israel.
.
This is why we spend so much money in this little country of Israel.
.
Pretty thin gruel for a high price. I think Israel should be supported by voluntary contributions, not tax loot.
ruveyn
But must be consistent in that if money is the issue, we should cut off all foreign aid to all countries. Our total foreign aid is always above 25 billion dollars a year. Israel recieves 3 billion, and Egypt recievs 1.5 billion. The continent of Africa receives between 5 to 10 billion. We'll spend a total of 20 billion over the next 3 years as part of Obama's plan to help poor countries with their agriculture. Through 2015, we should be spending 48 billion to help fight AIDS, Malaria, and tuburculosis in Africa. And there are many other programs we've established to help with economic development, literacy, democracy, education, women's rights, etc.
It is a long list of countries who are on that list of recipients of US foreign aid, why Israel? It's such a small portion of the amount we spend annually and there is actually a net benefit to it...
Among other things their intelligence agency makes the CIA look like a bunch of little kids building a tree house. They have helped us a lot on military technology even helped with the building of some of our fighter aircraft. They also single-handedly took out Saddam's nuclear program.
25 May 2011, 6:29 pm
MarketAndChurch wrote:
But must be consistent in that if money is the issue, we should cut off all foreign aid to all countries. Our total foreign aid is always above 25 billion dollars a year. Israel recieves 3 billion, and Egypt recievs 1.5 billion. The continent of Africa receives between 5 to 10 billion. We'll spend a total of 20 billion over the next 3 years as part of Obama's plan to help poor countries with their agriculture. Through 2015, we should be spending 48 billion to help fight AIDS, Malaria, and tuburculosis in Africa. And there are many other programs we've established to help with economic development, literacy, democracy, education, women's rights, etc.
I
I agree. We should cut it all off.
ruveyn
25 May 2011, 6:29 pm
Inuyasha wrote:
MarketAndChurch wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
MarketAndChurch wrote:
We get our values lived out in this part of the world. Democracy, Liberty, In God We Trust, Life, and Happiness. It provides for a Liberal, Secular society where linear thinking allows for the notion that there is progress to be made in this world, which to become an Israeli is to simply become a citizen, thus embracing E Pluribus Unum in every sense of the phrase(unlike the tribalistic neighbors that surrounds Israel.)
This is why we spend so much money in this little country of Israel.
.
This is why we spend so much money in this little country of Israel.
.
Pretty thin gruel for a high price. I think Israel should be supported by voluntary contributions, not tax loot.
ruveyn
But must be consistent in that if money is the issue, we should cut off all foreign aid to all countries. Our total foreign aid is always above 25 billion dollars a year. Israel recieves 3 billion, and Egypt recievs 1.5 billion. The continent of Africa receives between 5 to 10 billion. We'll spend a total of 20 billion over the next 3 years as part of Obama's plan to help poor countries with their agriculture. Through 2015, we should be spending 48 billion to help fight AIDS, Malaria, and tuburculosis in Africa. And there are many other programs we've established to help with economic development, literacy, democracy, education, women's rights, etc.
It is a long list of countries who are on that list of recipients of US foreign aid, why Israel? It's such a small portion of the amount we spend annually and there is actually a net benefit to it...
Among other things their intelligence agency makes the CIA look like a bunch of little kids building a tree house. They have helped us a lot on military technology even helped with the building of some of our fighter aircraft. They also single-handedly took out Saddam's nuclear program.
I do stand in awe of the mossad lol. The israelis are masters of hunting down and killing their enemies lol. They also have a whole division that have one job. To scan the internet for bad press or bad publicity about israel and to either dispute it or get it labelled anti-semetic. Plus all the huge firms in america and europe dedicated to scouring the press to make sure their image is maintained.
_________________
VERITAS LVX MEA
25 May 2011, 6:41 pm
In general there is no doubt the Israelis are an exceedingly talented and industrious bunch and there is no doubting their huge capabilities, They have also placed themselves in a geographical and social context with no regard to the huge hatreds for their aggressive policies. There is an underlying paranoid hysteria which is driving much of their politics and prevents them from coming to terms with the reality of their situation which would be much alleviated by accepting some sort of humanitarian decency towards the original inhabitants of the area they have persecuted to flee. But their attitude seems irretrievably fixed and, in the long run, likely to end in huge violence that may well destroy everyone concerned. Their stock of atomic weapons makes them far too dangerous to tolerate in the long run and advocates within Israel who are prepared to create huge destruction in the final event that Israel may not be sustainable may make the Holocaust look like a picnic. It's a frightful situation, not sustainable in the long run, and the Israelis do not seem particularly sane. The sanity of the rest of the world, of course, is also under question.
25 May 2011, 6:45 pm
Sand wrote:
In general there is no doubt the Israelis are an exceedingly talented and industrious bunch and there is no doubting their huge capabilities, They have also placed themselves in a geographical and social context with no regard to the huge hatreds for their aggressive policies. There is an underlying paranoid hysteria which is driving much of their politics and prevents them from coming to terms with the reality of their situation which would be much alleviated by accepting some sort of humanitarian decency towards the original inhabitants of the area they have persecuted to flee. But their attitude seems irretrievably fixed and, in the long run, likely to end in huge violence that may well destroy everyone concerned. Their stock of atomic weapons makes them far too dangerous to tolerate in the long run and advocates within Israel who are prepared to create huge destruction in the final event that Israel may not be sustainable may make the Holocaust look like a picnic. It's a frightful situation, not sustainable in the long run, and the Israelis do not seem particularly sane.
Easy to say, but the neighbors want to kill the Israelis. That makes being humane and decent a tad difficult.
ruveyn
25 May 2011, 6:46 pm
Sand wrote:
In general there is no doubt the Israelis are an exceedingly talented and industrious bunch and there is no doubting their huge capabilities, They have also placed themselves in a geographical and social context with no regard to the huge hatreds for their aggressive policies. There is an underlying paranoid hysteria which is driving much of their politics and prevents them from coming to terms with the reality of their situation which would be much alleviated by accepting some sort of humanitarian decency towards the original inhabitants of the area they have persecuted to flee. But their attitude seems irretrievably fixed and, in the long run, likely to end in huge violence that may well destroy everyone concerned. Their stock of atomic weapons makes them far too dangerous to tolerate in the long run and advocates within Israel who are prepared to create huge destruction in the final event that Israel may not be sustainable may make the Holocaust look like a picnic. It's a frightful situation, not sustainable in the long run, and the Israelis do not seem particularly sane.
So you are advocating their extermination?
Got news for you the hatred towards the Jewish people has to do with the fact they are Jewish and the Arabs can't stand the fact that there is a country in the Middle East that is not muslim. Quite frankly, I trust Israel with their nuclear arsenal a lot more than I trust Iran with nukes.
25 May 2011, 6:48 pm
ruveyn wrote:
Sand wrote:
In general there is no doubt the Israelis are an exceedingly talented and industrious bunch and there is no doubting their huge capabilities, They have also placed themselves in a geographical and social context with no regard to the huge hatreds for their aggressive policies. There is an underlying paranoid hysteria which is driving much of their politics and prevents them from coming to terms with the reality of their situation which would be much alleviated by accepting some sort of humanitarian decency towards the original inhabitants of the area they have persecuted to flee. But their attitude seems irretrievably fixed and, in the long run, likely to end in huge violence that may well destroy everyone concerned. Their stock of atomic weapons makes them far too dangerous to tolerate in the long run and advocates within Israel who are prepared to create huge destruction in the final event that Israel may not be sustainable may make the Holocaust look like a picnic. It's a frightful situation, not sustainable in the long run, and the Israelis do not seem particularly sane.
Easy to say, but the neighbors want to kill the Israelis. That makes being humane and decent a tad difficult.
ruveyn
Whatever justice may be involved on either side the inevitable outcome looks to be frightful and there seems little effort by the participants to avoid that final horrible end.
25 May 2011, 6:50 pm
Sand wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Sand wrote:
In general there is no doubt the Israelis are an exceedingly talented and industrious bunch and there is no doubting their huge capabilities, They have also placed themselves in a geographical and social context with no regard to the huge hatreds for their aggressive policies. There is an underlying paranoid hysteria which is driving much of their politics and prevents them from coming to terms with the reality of their situation which would be much alleviated by accepting some sort of humanitarian decency towards the original inhabitants of the area they have persecuted to flee. But their attitude seems irretrievably fixed and, in the long run, likely to end in huge violence that may well destroy everyone concerned. Their stock of atomic weapons makes them far too dangerous to tolerate in the long run and advocates within Israel who are prepared to create huge destruction in the final event that Israel may not be sustainable may make the Holocaust look like a picnic. It's a frightful situation, not sustainable in the long run, and the Israelis do not seem particularly sane.
Easy to say, but the neighbors want to kill the Israelis. That makes being humane and decent a tad difficult.
ruveyn
Whatever justice may be involved on either side the inevitable outcome looks to be frightful and there seems little effort by the participants to avoid that final horrible end.
No, I will point out only one side wants peace, the Israelis. The Palestinians seem to want to murder every Jew down to the last baby. You don't negotiate with someone that wants to exterminate you.
25 May 2011, 6:58 pm
Inuyasha wrote:
Sand wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Sand wrote:
In general there is no doubt the Israelis are an exceedingly talented and industrious bunch and there is no doubting their huge capabilities, They have also placed themselves in a geographical and social context with no regard to the huge hatreds for their aggressive policies. There is an underlying paranoid hysteria which is driving much of their politics and prevents them from coming to terms with the reality of their situation which would be much alleviated by accepting some sort of humanitarian decency towards the original inhabitants of the area they have persecuted to flee. But their attitude seems irretrievably fixed and, in the long run, likely to end in huge violence that may well destroy everyone concerned. Their stock of atomic weapons makes them far too dangerous to tolerate in the long run and advocates within Israel who are prepared to create huge destruction in the final event that Israel may not be sustainable may make the Holocaust look like a picnic. It's a frightful situation, not sustainable in the long run, and the Israelis do not seem particularly sane.
Easy to say, but the neighbors want to kill the Israelis. That makes being humane and decent a tad difficult.
ruveyn
Whatever justice may be involved on either side the inevitable outcome looks to be frightful and there seems little effort by the participants to avoid that final horrible end.
No, I will point out only one side wants peace, the Israelis. The Palestinians seem to want to murder every Jew down to the last baby. You don't negotiate with someone that wants to exterminate you.
Another example of the rampant paranoia that poisons the possibilities. A glance at Gaza clearly indicates who is the aggressor and who is the victim. Victims do not peacefully lay down and die when they are so brutally suppressed.
25 May 2011, 7:00 pm
Sand wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
Sand wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Sand wrote:
In general there is no doubt the Israelis are an exceedingly talented and industrious bunch and there is no doubting their huge capabilities, They have also placed themselves in a geographical and social context with no regard to the huge hatreds for their aggressive policies. There is an underlying paranoid hysteria which is driving much of their politics and prevents them from coming to terms with the reality of their situation which would be much alleviated by accepting some sort of humanitarian decency towards the original inhabitants of the area they have persecuted to flee. But their attitude seems irretrievably fixed and, in the long run, likely to end in huge violence that may well destroy everyone concerned. Their stock of atomic weapons makes them far too dangerous to tolerate in the long run and advocates within Israel who are prepared to create huge destruction in the final event that Israel may not be sustainable may make the Holocaust look like a picnic. It's a frightful situation, not sustainable in the long run, and the Israelis do not seem particularly sane.
Easy to say, but the neighbors want to kill the Israelis. That makes being humane and decent a tad difficult.
ruveyn
Whatever justice may be involved on either side the inevitable outcome looks to be frightful and there seems little effort by the participants to avoid that final horrible end.
No, I will point out only one side wants peace, the Israelis. The Palestinians seem to want to murder every Jew down to the last baby. You don't negotiate with someone that wants to exterminate you.
Another example of the rampant paranoia that poisons the possibilities. A glance at Gaza clearly indicates who is the aggressor and who is the victim. Victims do not peacefully lay down and die when they are so brutally suppressed.
So in your mind I guess it is okay for people to murder Jews...
Israel is blockading the Gaza Strip to keep Hamas from getting more rockets to shoot into Israel.
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