Are Jews Basically "Fellow Christians?"

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My paternal ancestors actually had hailed from the Kraichgau in southwest Germany, though I'm a true blue nephew of my Uncle Sam.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Don't worry about your ancestors. If you go back far enough, we are all Africans.

ruveyn

That makes you and me African Americans, bro.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Not I. All my ancestors derive from a pair crawled out of a hole in the ground near Piltdown.

As Pitdown Man was proven to be a hoax - - does that mean (gulp) that you don't really exist?

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Well I'd actually question whether or not someone is actually anti-semetic when individuals here start accusing people of being anti-semetic, it tends to be a favored tactic by certain individuals here to try to smear other board members.

I wasn't accusing you or any specific WP member of hating Jews in this case. I was talking about those of us Christians who who hold to a Christ centered theology, and who don't try to crawl up Israel's ass, without resorting to Antisemitism.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

I think this stance is quite common among "liberal christians" after the holocaust when they feel sorry for the Jews; but of course that requires deliberately twisting scriptures and overlooking key Christian doctrines. That is why more strict Christians don't share this position. Even though large portion of Christian fundamentalists are zionist and hold rabit pro-Israel politics, they would typically agree that Jews are NOT gonig to heaven unless they believe in Jesus. At the same time, liberal Christians might challenge this view and say stuff like "Jews and Muslims beileve the same God and are all going to heaven". But still I hardly remember anyone else using the term "fellow Christians" to describe Jews and/or Muslims. But at the same time I am not too surprised that someone did.

I never knew she was a man. Did she change gender? What happened?



I don't see it as antisemitic. I mean, if you believe that Jesus is the Messiah and someone else doesn't, then, "by definition" that person is "wrong". The word "deluded" is simply a synonym of the word "wrong" with extra emotional badge attached to it. Thus, if someone wants to portray you as "hateful" they can always take ANY debate in which you take any side and accuse you of claiming that your opponent is "deluded"; technically that claim will be correct. That does not mean you hate your debate opponent. Einstein and Bohr didn't hate each other, even though they didn't agree with each other either. Now if you take a view that in every debate you always "hate" your opponent, then the request to "stop hating" is equivalent to a request to "stop having a point of view". In case of Christianity, it means you are asking Christians to stop being Christians. But, at the same time, you don't want Christians to ask Jews to stop being Jewish. Isn't it a double standard right there?

I mean if you are asking Christians to give up Christianity, then you are "hateful", yourself. So, if you don't want to be hateful, your opinion should be that "Christians should continue to be Christians but they should NOT hate Jews". Now, if that is your opinion, how would you describe a "Christian who does not hate Jews"? If a person is "Christian", then by definition they believe that Jesus is the Messiah. Now, if Jesus is the Messiah, then logically it means that at some point everyone, including Jews, will find out about it. Now, you say that a statement "Jews will find out about it" is antisemitic since it implies that they will become Christians. Fine. But then the only logical alternative to this statement is "Jesus is the messiah but Jews will NEVER find out about it". But isn't this statement EVEN MORE antisemitic, since it implies that Jews are "permanently deluded" as opposed to "temporary deluded"?

Actually, there are plenty of theologically conservative evangelicals who have watered down their theology in order to court God's favor by making exceptions for Jews. The late Jerry Falwell said he'd never try to convert "God's people." While Pat Robertson said Jews could be saved by observing their law.
I've come across evangelical websites that have attacked mainline Protestant denominations as allegedly being Antisemitic for preaching that the Church had spiritually replaced Judaism as the new Israel (that is, supersecessionism, otherwise known as replacement theology). Rather, they (evangelicals) insist that the Jews are still the chosen people by virtue of heredity, and so are exempt from Christ's grace.
As a matter of fact, you can respect the Jews' right to worship in their own theology without brown nosing them - which I have to think they must find condescending and offensive. And you can disagree with the theology of Judaism without being an Antisemite.
As a side note, true adherents to Replacement Theology don't see themselves as "perfected Jews," as there is no longer any difference between Jew and Gentile, Greek and Barbarian, Roman and Scythian, man and woman, slave and free. That "us against them" wall has since been torn down.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Cousins, not brothers. All humankind are cousins.

ruveyn

wow I italized the bit that has nothing to do with anything I am saying.
I think the correct Ecumenical strategy is benign neglect.
I would prefer not to have a role in you Apocalypse.

Tread gently, Comrade. In many African cultures cousins refer to one another as brother / sister. If der Kraichgauer is an African of one of those cultures, it is meet and right that he brother you.

I have elsewhere asserted [not proven, since one cannot prove a negative] that I cannot prove that I exist. But I think I am, like the Little Engine that Could, so I may be.

Piltdown Man was not a hoax - that was my great [30x] uncle's boy. The proof that it was a hoax was a hoax - anxious to keep a low profile, since the belligerent AfroEuropeans threaten our peaceful lifestyle, my granddad snuck in and switched the specimens.

Siblings are zeroth cousins. They have all their grandparents in common.

ruveyn

Well, I guess if you want to get technical about it.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer